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Alternative to M20-139-003 Shock Disc Retrofit


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Hi,

I'm new here and this is my first post. 

I just recently purchased 1964 Mooney M20E.  I absolutely love the plane.  However, it is time to replace the shock discs on the nose wheel and mains.  During the pre-buy inspection, the mechanic did mention that the shock discs can use replacement.  When I inquired about the price, he mentioned about $100-$125 per shock disc.  I didn't know that there is 3 shock discs for the nose wheel and 4 for the main. My model currently has 4 shock discs on the nose wheel and 5 on the each main.  I was wondering if somebody know an alternative besides buying $2000 M20-139-003 and M20-139-004 kits.  Lasar had an option that also runs around $1,800 for the nose wheel.  

Is there another "airworthy" option to retrofit to Lord shock discs without spending too much money?

------------------------------------

I know that there were some replies below on this topic, however, I want to share what I ended up doing to save a lot of money on shock disks.  For the nose gear shock discs, I purchased a kit from LASAR that ended up costing about $1,000 plus installation.  For the mains, I went to Faeth Aircraft (Aircraft salvage yard) and bought shock discs at $200/per side.   This included the top plate, shock link, bolt, collar, etc.  It was 10 times cheaper than purchasing Mooney retrofit kits.  The shock discs were almost brand new and I had to use special tool to compress those discs in order to install.  Since the shock discs came from two different landing gears, I mixed matched those shock discs to have equal wear on both sides.

I hope this helps to save lots of money.

Have fun flying!

Edited by leothegreati
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5 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

To be honest, although it is a large hit right now, you have to look at it as $12.5 per disk per yesr because that is how long they will last you.  They are not like oleos where they need to be tweaked and pumped up etc every annual.  Once in they are good for a decade.  

Only go to a msc or A and P that services LOTS of mooneys.  This suspension is unique to Mooney and unless the A and P has done it trillions of times before and has the tools, you dont want him learning on your plane!   Once you have found the the right shop then go and help them sort the problem.  If you reduce the labour cost by doing some of it yourself, the $1500 for parts ples labour doesnt seem so bad. 

Ps mine have just been done.

Andrew

pps we have all forgotten to say Hi amd welcome aboard to the most friendly aviation forum you will ever find. :)  

Where are A&P's going to get experience if every pilot takes his airplane to an MSC or only A&P's with Mooney experience? We have to learn to work on them somehow, so someone is going to have a mechanic learning on their airplane. The Mooney is not that complicated of an airplane and the most important thing over experience would be having the correct tools for the job. I don't bill someone to learn on their airplane and after 30 years in maintenance still have a lot of learning ahead of me. 

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Leo

 

Hi welcome aboard.

 

Yes it is a significant hit on the shock discs but like mentioned above they will be good for a number of years with little to no maintenance.

Depending on how mechanically inclined you are and who you use for the mechanic and if he will allow owner assisting on things like this and the annual I suggest you get in there and get you hands dirty.  You will learn a lot about the airplane and how it operates.  Knowing how things operate is critical in troubleshooting when you do have an issue.  There is a lot of grunt work done during an annual that you can legally do as the owner if the shop allows you to.  Removing inspection covers, cleaning and lubing moving parts changing the oil, greasing wheel bearings etc..  I do recommend you work with the A&P initially so you don't make some common newbie mistakes.  Will it save you money maybe but most likely no but the knowledge you gain is priceless.

 

Good luck and the search feature is very useful many questions you have most likely have been discussed but don't be afraid to start a new topic if you can't find the answer or even resurrecting an old thread for more clarification.

 

 

 

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Hi guys, and thank you for your responses.  I would like to clarify my question.

I don't have problems paying for the shock discs.  Here is a breakdown how much shock disks will cost.

3 shock disks for the nose wheel @ $115 = $345

8 shock disks for the main (4 for each side) @ $115 = $920

I agree that if I do shock disc replacement, it is not a significant cost knowing how long it will last.  But the issue that I'm running into is that I have old shock discs that had 4 for the nose wheel and 5 for each main (10 total).  Doing my research, I found that there is a Mooney retrofit kit with the following pricing:

Mooney option - M20-139-003 (nose wheel) - $1976.28

Mooney option - M20-139-004 (each main) - $1794.00 each side

Lasar option - nose wheel retrofit kit - $1800

My question is, is there any way to avoid purchasing these expensive "retrofit" kits? Is there a plates that I can buy that will allow me to install Lord shock discs on my truss that was built for 4 shock discs (nose wheel)? Did any of you had an experience with retrofitting old fashion shock discs to the new?

I would hate to pay almost $6k for the retrofit kits if there is a cheaper option.

Edited by leothegreati
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There is a way, but it is a grey area and dependent on your mechanic.  LASAR used to include hand sketched instructions on how to make your existing gear hardware work.  It involved flipping the conical spacer of the Firestone discs and some perhaps some minor grinding in one or two places.  I have seen it done and it works.  The bigger issue would be the condition of the hardware once you pull it apart.  You may find enough corrosion to justify upgrading.  LASAR sells the parts or you may try salvage.  Salvage parts may be hit or miss.  If you call LASAR, they may or may not still have the instructions on how to do this with the old hardware.  I may have a copy myself, PM me if you would like to review it.  I don't necessarily endorse going this way, but it is better than continuing with the Firestone discs that must be rock hard.

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1 hour ago, Hyett6420 said:

but you also work on a lot of Mooneys  :) My a and P did bill me so I was a tad pissed. 

Not really, up until Oshkosh and Bob B's Mooney, I only worked on mine. I just recently worked on PeytonM's trim system which was a new experience for me. I learned on his airplane which will benefit me on my own. I don't work on many little airplanes at all. 

I think the biggest thing you want is to not have an A&P who will fix your airplane McGuyver style. Look for someone who has a reputation for being detailed, thorough and most importantly honest. Someone who can tell you what you don't want to hear and explain options available. 

When you find that, you have a good mechanic, regardless of how much specific Mooney experience they have. 

David

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Hi Leo,

Sorry it seems I hijacked your thread a bit. Welcome to MS. I think Andy95W has your best option on a tight budget. Not as easy as picking up the phone and ordering new stuff. I picked up three main landing gear assemblies at Oshkosh for $150 two years ago and it was money well spent on the parts. The parts you need are out there, it just takes some time to find them.

David

 

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Keep an eye on EBay and Barnstormers, you will likely find a set of gear parts.  Sadly good airplanes are being wrecked almost daily.   There was a recent thread of of a C model that landed in a field.

Clarence

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I contacted Lasar again and spoke with Dan who gave me accurate price for the retrofit.  He quoted me $950 for the nose wheel retrofit parts (includes some recommended parts to be replaced due to rust).  I also spoke with Don Maxwell at Don Maxwell Aviation Services, and he confirmed that they do the same procedure as Lesar.  

Well, going from $1976.28 in parts for the nose wheel to $950 makes a huge difference. 

They also mentioned that for all three wheels, the cost for parts will be around $3,100, but that includes other recommended parts to be replaced with this retrofit.  The labor will be about 2-3 hours for each wheel.

I already scheduled service with them for the beginning of the next week. I hope it goes well.

Thanks for all of your input.

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15 minutes ago, leothegreati said:

I contacted Lasar again and spoke with Dan who gave me accurate price for the retrofit.  He quoted me $950 for the nose wheel retrofit parts (includes some recommended parts to be replaced due to rust).  I also spoke with Don Maxwell at Don Maxwell Aviation Services, and he confirmed that they do the same procedure as Lesar.  

Well, going from $1976.28 in parts for the nose wheel to $950 makes a huge difference. 

They also mentioned that for all three wheels, the cost for parts will be around $3,100, but that includes other recommended parts to be replaced with this retrofit.  The labor will be about 2-3 hours for each wheel.

I already scheduled service with them for the beginning of the next week. I hope it goes well.

Thanks for all of your input.

You will be happy with it.  It will make a big difference on the ground.

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I'm keeping quiet for the most part about Mooney "experts" because I know a few guys that work on a bunch of Mooney's that I wouldn't trust to wax mine. I got to say though, no problem with a good honest mechanic if he knows what he is getting into (he knows he will have to learn) and doesn't charge you for his learning curve. There are many times where I bill 1 hour for every 3 I work because I have to educate myself of a specific problem. If I think that the knowledge I gain will pay dividends on future work, I have no problem taking the time hit if the owner is willing to let me do it. That is how experience is gained. Same reason I pay my apprentices $15/hr and charge the customer $75, because I can only bill for one out of every 4 hours they work :D

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He contacted THE Mooney experts.... one is the key guy for parts, the other guy is the service guru...

If he called Bill Wheat the engineer, I would have really been impressed...  very long distance required...

Best regards,

-a-

Edited by carusoam
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I know that there were some replies on this topic, but I want to share what I ended up doing to save a lot of money on shock disks.  For the nose gear shock discs, I purchased a kit from LASAR that ended up costing about $1,000 plus installation.  For the mains, I went to Faeth Aircraft (Aircraft salvage yard) and bought shock discs at $200/per side.   This included the top plate, shock link, bolt, collar, etc.  It was 10 times cheaper than purchasing Mooney retrofit kits.  The shock discs were almost brand new and I had to use special tool to compress those discs in order to install.  Since the shock discs came from two different landing gears, I mixed matched those shock discs to have equal wear on both sides.

I hope this helps to save lots of money.

Have fun flying!

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Might as well take the time to repaint the gear parts. Bead blast.  Passivate. Epoxy prime. Urethane paint. Reassemble.  It'll look like a million bucks for about 200$ and a couple days time 

IMG_0226.JPG

IMG_0233.JPG

IMG_0283.JPG

Edited by jetdriven
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40 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Might as well take the time to repaint the gear parts. Bead blast.  Passivate. Epoxy prime. Urethane paint. Reassemble.  It'll look like a million bucks for about 200$ and a couple days time 

IMG_0226.JPG

IMG_0233.JPG

IMG_0283.JPG

What are your reasons for choosing urethane over powder coating?

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Might as well take the time to repaint the gear parts. Bead blast.  Passivate. Epoxy prime. Urethane paint. Reassemble.  It'll look like a million bucks for about 200$ and a couple days time 
IMG_0226.thumb.JPG.c2db54653b3327237ec70cdb8bf97c72.JPG
IMG_0233.thumb.JPG.56eb1cda53ee548d781a130e91479b66.JPG
IMG_0283.thumb.JPG.3cc056ac9c05715901e10bbf5c929eea.JPG



Like this?


9d5c1f2c6f9a69e0ea85c3626110dea5.jpg

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

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29 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

What are your reasons for choosing urethane over powder coating?

Thinner, lighter, cheaper. Easier to find cracks. Yes it's less durable. Those upper and lower gear legs won't fit together with powder coat on the tabs. It even shaves some paint off. Plus I can do painting myself and I had a lot of epoxy primer and urethane left over from the aircraft paint job project from hell. 

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7 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Another question for Byron...

What did you use to passivate with?

 

I have seen some interesting solutions used for new equipment in the Pharma industry...

thanks.

Best regards,

-a-

I used a phosphoric acid prep from Eastwood called "after blast".  In this climate steel parts rust through the paint in a year. And 4130 tubing is very reactive. It's been a year looks sprayed yesterday. 

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