63-C-

Mooney crash, pilot walks away

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Mooneyspacers, Do consider ordering from smile.amazon.com and naming the Mooney Summit as your charity. So far, we have received $58 in contributions from them (mostly from my son and my purchases).

just replace the www. with smile and you can select a charity, and 1/2 of 1% will be given to that charity quarterly of your amazon purchases.

Here is PaulM's link that will invoke the charitable contribution by Mr Bezos.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EMXSIR2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

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*Members that donate $10 or more do not see advertisements*

On 2/11/2017 at 0:29 AM, Guitarmaster said:

Sorry. Not luck. Without a doubt God's hand! Glad you are ok!

Amazing story! Makes the $40 I just spent on an electronic CO detector possibly the best return on invested capital ever!



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Couldn't God just fix the heater in the first place? Why go thru all the theatrics? Curious minds want to know. Could the deity still pull it off without a functioning autopilot, or would have that been too much? 

Pretty cool story, all is well that ends well. My motto has always been better lucky than good and always keep your autopilot in working order.

Edited by AndyFromCB
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Shouldn't we be banning religion as well as politics, neither have anything to do with Mooneys or aviation.  Money is still allowed, especially when helping others spend theirs.

Clarence

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7 hours ago, AndyFromCB said:

Couldn't God just fix the heater in the first place? Why go thru all the theatrics? Curious minds want to know. Could the deity still pull it off without a functioning autopilot, or would have that been too much? 

Pretty cool story, all is well that ends well. My motto has always been better lucky than good and always keep your autopilot in working order.

Kind of an arrogant rant isn't it? It is possible there is more to this universe then a human brain could comprehend. You have never been wrong? Why do you folks go out of your way to attack religion? I say live and let live.

Edited by Mooney_Mike
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Consumer Aviation Oct 2016 recommendations:

CO Experts Model 2016. It’s the most expensive unit, but it lasts the longest, so it’s not the most expensive in service. The Tocsin came second in line with the Pocket CO a close third.

If the budget just won’t cover an electronic unit, then at least get a Quantum Eye, put it where you can see it easily and make sure you replace it every 18 months.

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Dan,

You have posted one of the most important tales of survival I have ever seen on Mooneyspace, and I think your survival will help save other pilots lives. That is hugely fortunate that you can tell your story. Thank you for sharing. Ok I'll share.

This story of remarkable survival to me goes to show that we ALL need a reliable CO detector in our cockpit EVERY time we fly. As some of you who know me, know that I feel that the ~$5 spot detectors for CO (i.e. Quantum Eye, ASA, "Save a life" color changing cards) are absolutely useless for saving your life, and these would only be helpful to NTSB investigators in post crash cause investigations, and the home depot CO detectors are only a little better. Here's why.

One of the very first things to go away when you have CO poisoning is your sense of COLOR perception, so even if you were lucky enough to actually be staring at your CO detector (which would be unlikely) before you passed out from CO poisoning, you would have NO idea what color it was. Therefore if ANYONE HAS A SPOT CO DETECTOR AS THEIR ONLY SOURCE OF CO POISONING DETECTION SHOULD IMMEDIATELY THROW IT AWAY REPLACE IT WITH AN ACTUAL LOW LEVEL ELECTRONIC CO DETECTOR. I feel that ALL of these spot CO detectors should be removed from the aviation market as they can give pilots the false sense of security that they are safe, and they would be able look at and to accurately interpret the results before passing out if there were a CO problem. This would be highly unlikely. Another fallacy I've heard from pilots is that a typical fingertip pulse oximeter should detect CO poisoning if present.... it won't, at all, and would actually likely read a very high saturation number if you are exposed to CO.

I purchased an Aeromedix low level CO detector shortly after I bought my airplane, and since have installed a guardian in panel CO detector to accurately detect this silent killer. 

 

John B

Edited by JohnB
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8 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Shouldn't we be banning religion as well as politics, neither have anything to do with Mooneys or aviation.  Money is still allowed, especially when helping others spend theirs.

Clarence

When you have read Mein Kampf, Des Capital, the secrets of the universe, all 800 versions of the bible and Koran, etc.  We can all discuss politics and religion. Until then yep we should just discuss aeroplanes.  Oh and no one correct the spelling that's the ipads job.

Andrew 

 

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6 hours ago, Guitarmaster said:

f179f98f35161d9d83313982859bcc77.jpg

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What kind is it? Where did you get it? Time for me to invest in one after reading about this amazing miracle.

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After reading and posting to this thread I needed to go fly yesterday and get better acquainted with the CO Detector I've had, usually in the back seat, for a couple of years. My very first flight was very short. Not only was it indicating CO while on the ground, which I expected, it was showing low levels (15-20 PPM) during climb. I brought the plane back into the hangar and de-cowled it to check everything even though it is just out of annual. I could see nothing even slightly suspicious. But I did do something I've been putting off because it is such a pain, literally -- I used plastic wire wraps to close off the top of the rudder pedal boots in the cabin. (I think I broke a rib on the trim wheel.)

I buttoned everything up, I read the instructions for the CO Detector and (re)learned that the OSHA limit for 8 hours continuous exposure to CO is 35 ppm (25 in CA). The sensor is very sensitive and I realized that short term exposure to 20 ppm was not lethal. I took off again, perhaps the rudder boots were significant, in any case once I was under way the CO levels remained at zero and pulling the heater control still did not show any CO at all.

I am even happier to recommend the $89 $84.10 detector that I have! It does automatically cut off after 15 minutes but I do not find that to be a problem. As we do with our blood oxygen meter, we'll just check it while on a longer flight. I moved the CO detector storage pouch from the back seat to the center console in honor of Dan!

https://www.zoro.com/uei-test-instruments-carbon-monoxide-detector-0-to-999-ppm-utlc11/i/G7609996/

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With all the cameras we are starting to use to inspect valves...

Is there a way to inspect flame arrestors and other internal parts of the exhaust/muffler/heat systems?

Can we visually find a crack that may allow CO into the heat exchanger?

Best regards,

-a-

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I looked and saw this unit was not available, but the price looked attractive. Still I can't find any info on the manufacturer. Did they include a manual with more specs, and can you send it in for an eventual sensor replacement? I like that the US-made detectors can easily have sensors replaced for a reasonable cost.


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13 minutes ago, cnoe said:

I looked and saw this unit was not available, but the price looked attractive. Still I can't find any info on the manufacturer. Did they include a manual with more specs, and can you send it in for an eventual sensor replacement? I like that the US-made detectors can easily have sensors replaced for a reasonable cost.


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Here is what appears to be the same one, only still available

https://smile.amazon.com/KKmoon-Portable-Concentration-Detector-Sound-light/dp/B01AUMOBU2/ref=pd_sim_60_5?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01AUMOBU2&pd_rd_r=S3BXDX4MWG8H75SK6D28&pd_rd_w=ndtjd&pd_rd_wg=Z1Djj&psc=1&refRID=S3BXDX4MWG8H75SK6D28

 

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8 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

Many, like this one appears to be not available in crazy CA perhaps someone from out of state can start a middle man service to order things like this and perhaps 100 watt light bulbs and then ship them to CA like contraband.  As much as I love this state it never fails to amaze me how stupid restrictions like this are I cant follow the logic this is a safety device and no matter which one you pick its going to be better than nothing.

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That's an O2 concentration sensor. The yellow one is the CO sensor.

Chuck: it did come with a manual. I will see if I can find it.

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I'm so glad I finally read this thread. An incredible story, as one of your 9 lives was used up Dan. Get back in the saddle as soon as possible.

Good that lots of frugal Mooney pilots are checking their detectors and maybe investing in new or better equipment. Almost everything in this thread reflects what's valuable about MS, in my option. I'm also believing you had a very capable co-pilot, Dan.

Well done!

 

 

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That's an O2 concentration sensor. The yellow one is the CO sensor.

Chuck: it did come with a manual. I will see if I can find it.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk



I'm mostly curious if the sensor can be replaced. I know the home-type CO detectors are throw-away units but cheap to replace at Walmart or Home Depot. The CO Experts model is supposed to last a while but the manufacturer is old, blind, and the website looks like he's selling snake-oil (http://coexperts.com). If I was going to spend that kind of money I'd likely go with a panel-mount Guardian.


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I'm mostly curious if the sensor can be replaced. I know the home-type CO detectors are throw-away units but cheap to replace at Walmart or Home Depot. The CO Experts model is supposed to last a while but the manufacturer is old, blind, and the website looks like he's selling snake-oil (http://coexperts.com). If I was going to spend that kind of money I'd likely go with a panel-mount Guardian.


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Gotcha! I'll check.

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5 hours ago, carusoam said:

With all the cameras we are starting to use to inspect valves...

Is there a way to inspect flame arrestors and other internal parts of the exhaust/muffler/heat systems?

Can we visually find a crack that may allow CO into the heat exchanger?

Best regards,

-a-

A fibrescope will allow internal inspection of the muffler and flame tubes.  In the shop we use an old filter queen vacuum with a plug in the tail pipe to pressurize the muffler with the jacket open, then spray with a soap and water solution to find leaks.

Clarence

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I can't tell you all how happy I am with the direction this thread has taken. Like I said before, with the detectors we have available these days everyone should have one.  I just wish someone started this thread 2 weeks ago. :D

I met with the FAA inspector assigned to my accident today. He is also a pilot and ordered his CO detector yesterday:). He said they found a decent sized crack in my muffler under the heat shroud.  It's been about 100 hrs since the last annual and if the crack had started we didn't catch it. We did partialy pull the heat shroud to have a look, but did not pull the exhaust.  The rest of the exhaust system was is excellent shape(at least the visible exterior).

I wonder when I first would have noticed if I had a detector? I did a 2:30 flight in the morning of the accident flight.  At the very end of that flight I got a headache.  It lasted most of the day but I believed it was caused by a lack of coffee and thought I was catching whatever my daughter had.  She had been "sort of" sick for the preceding week. I'm sure it would have went off on that flight. Later that afternoon I flew for1:20 to Duluth (to clear into US Customs) and didn't have any symptom until I exited the airplane. Then another headache.  I never put it all together.  

Two weeks before the accident I flew with my wife and 2 little girls for about an hour. We all felt fine that day, but a detector very well may have alerted me to a problem then. 

Don't forget to safe guard the other areas of your life too. Boats and campers come to mind. A few years ago a family near me lost their young daughter in their cabin cruiser when she went below to take a nap.  

If you buy from Amazon please do consider using smile.Amazon.com and selecting the Mooney Summit as the charity.  As mentioned by Mike above.

Cheers,

Dan

Edited by DanM20C
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If anyone wants to run "point" to get a group buy on the "right" CO detector, I imagine they would have the gratitude of a number of us! Ill see if I can get one to be donated as a door prize for the Mooney Summit V in the mean time.

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FYI the one I have on order offers quantity discounts on as few as 5 units. It's made in the U.S., has a replaceable sensor, and detects low levels. If I hadn't already ordered one I'd have run point for the savings alone.

 

http://sensorcon.com/collections/carbon-monoxide-meters/products/portable-carbon-monoxide-detector-meter?variant=4193480964

 

P.S. I have no connection or interest in this company. There seem to be several acceptable models on the market nowadays.

 

 

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Dan makes an excellent point about CO being dangerous in boats. My sailboat has an aft cockpit, and a large dodger forward of the cockpit that can form a trap for exhaust gases in a following wind- especially so in a following sea state. I have learned to close off the companionway, and use the remote autopilot unit to steer from outside the cockpit. The exhaust system doesn't leak, but the fumes get into the cockpit. Not a problem, of course, when sailing, but long power runs can really show the problem. I took me a while to realize that my headaches were the result of CO poisoning, but eventually the reality sunk in. I also have seen the same situation (following wind and sea state) in a trawler I owned for many years. The solution here was to steer from the flying bridge, or to close off the cabin back doors, and open windows and side doors to keep fresh air flowing.

 

 

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