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Mooney crash, pilot walks away


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On 2/14/2018 at 6:06 PM, RobertGary1 said:

Any CO detector that doesn't sound a loud alarm is worthless in my book. I had an exchanger crack coming out of Napa night, IFR. Had the alarm not be blaring in my ear there is little doubt I wouldn't have happened to notice a little dot turn brown in the dark. This is what I use. Only $25 and works great...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004Y6V5CI/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

-Robert

Robert,

 Thanks for sharing.  I think that kiddie is great protection, I wish I had that last year.  But being a home detector it is limited to being a catastrophic alarm. 

In it's description it states, " it is designed to sound at 85 decibels at 10 feet when it detects 70 ppm (parts per million) of CO for 60 to 240 minutes, 150 ppm for 10 to 50 minutes, or 400 ppm for 4 to 15 minutes.:

I'm positive that would have would have saved me.  But one nice feature of a high resolution detector (Sensorcon or similar) is detecting a problem well before it's an emergency.  Many exhaust failures happen slowly, over many hours.  It would be nice finding out early on.

Not long after the Sensorcon discount went into effect a gentleman on beechtalk  posted what he found on the first flight with the Sensorcon.  It was a 2008 G36 with 1100hrs TT.  He noticed a rise of 4-7ppm when the heater was on.  The highest reading he saw was 13ppm.  He pulled the muffler and found this. 

5a865adaba309_A36Muffler.JPG.2fa3d58ad746272cdae703923e6822c9.JPG

These detectors are a great tool.

Cheers,

Dan

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On 2/2/2018 at 11:37 PM, gsxrpilot said:

I've been looking for a good place for my SensorCon in my M20K. Last week on the way to Vegas with not much to do for five hours at 12K, I discovered that the clip on the back of the SensorCon is a perfect match for a standard GoPro mount. 

If I want to read the number, I have to take it in my hand, but if the alarm goes off, it's right by my ear.

Thanks Dan, for turning us all on to these units.

IMG_1394.thumb.JPG.395d0aa012e1ba24e2c494f53fa36c38.JPGIMG_1398.thumb.JPG.242c2d117a35b302330cafbb4ca1297f.JPG

I just noticed this...  Paul might need to win a CB award.  If I'm not mistaken his "GoPro mount" is actually the top of the display box the GoPro comes in.:)

I may or may not have duct taped one of those to my step once.

Cheers,

Dan

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Update... My Sensorcon showed up yesterday so I went flying today.  Taxi readings got to 10 ppm, takeoff went up to 22 ppm, cruise dropped down to 8.  I turned on the heater and it dropped to 4 ppm, so that was providing fresh air.  Cruised around for 45 minutes with no change.  Then, on final I noticed it alarming so I hit the max button so I could focus on landing and check it later.  It topped out at 46 ppm.  All of this is with a brand new exhaust system installed in November.  None of the readings put me in any kind of danger zone, but it would be nice to find out where it's getting in the plane.  Any ideas?

One thing for sure, now that I have the monitor, I won't fly again without it!

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6 hours ago, skydvrboy said:

Update... My Sensorcon showed up yesterday so I went flying today.  Taxi readings got to 10 ppm, takeoff went up to 22 ppm, cruise dropped down to 8.  I turned on the heater and it dropped to 4 ppm, so that was providing fresh air.  Cruised around for 45 minutes with no change.  Then, on final I noticed it alarming so I hit the max button so I could focus on landing and check it later.  It topped out at 46 ppm.  All of this is with a brand new exhaust system installed in November.  None of the readings put me in any kind of danger zone, but it would be nice to find out where it's getting in the plane.  Any ideas?

One thing for sure, now that I have the monitor, I won't fly again without it!

I also fly an F and have the Sensorcon.  The only time I have ever seen numbers like you is while taxiing in formation with the door open and the cool scoop out the window.  On a normal day I see 2-4 while taxiing and 0-1 while inflight.  I would check for gaps in the firewall and the tape along the floor in the foot wells.

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I’ve seen up to 50 while doing a run up with the door open and the wind just right. Taxing with the door open 10-25 not unusual. In flight over the last 6 months I see 0-2, mostly zero. Heat on has no effect, still mostly zero.


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12 hours ago, skydvrboy said:

Update... My Sensorcon showed up yesterday so I went flying today.  Taxi readings got to 10 ppm, takeoff went up to 22 ppm, cruise dropped down to 8.  I turned on the heater and it dropped to 4 ppm, so that was providing fresh air.  Cruised around for 45 minutes with no change.  Then, on final I noticed it alarming so I hit the max button so I could focus on landing and check it later.  It topped out at 46 ppm.  All of this is with a brand new exhaust system installed in November.  None of the readings put me in any kind of danger zone, but it would be nice to find out where it's getting in the plane.  Any ideas?

One thing for sure, now that I have the monitor, I won't fly again without it!

That's my experience, too.   It alarms in landing configuration sometimes, and sometimes in a reduced-power descent.   And not usually in either case, just sometimes.   I've been taping up holes in the floor and checking the belly panels but haven't found anything obvious.   I just changed out the heater scat hose, but haven't flown it enough to know whether that will make a difference (it had some small holes in it).

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About four months ago I bought a Sensorcon and mounted below my throttle quadrant. It’s easy to see and still out of the way. Then I had the opportunity to beta test a new product from Aithre. It is an Carbon Monoxide tester that mounts right to your headset and has a speaker that is right in the ear cup. I’ve flown three times with it over the last two weeks and is reading pretty consistent with the Sensorcon. aad481d7acc564acfee3c5b80166a401.jpg4271dfb51cfcfaaed39f4f312d10b7a3.jpgafb649a8dbf31f63ac5232567e719b6a.jpg

If anyone has any questions about the Aithre you can contact them or myself. I’ll be testing it and their upgrades till they are set on a production product. https://m.facebook.com/aithreaviation/?tsid=0.24166148119411346&source=result


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That headset getup looks interesting, but isn't comoatible with my Halos.
I've been debating between the front of my quadrant where yours is,  just below it and to the right.

Yeah the headsets they have available right now are for the BOSE and I think the lightspeed. I suggested they go with a remote unit that is Bluetooth capable and can connect to my audio panel and everyone in the cockpit has the ability to hear the alert. And it wouldn’t have to be so small. But it does work really well and is effective of alerting me of the presence of carbon monoxide. I believe they have a few more prototypes planned while we do the testing.


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20 hours ago, DanM20C said:

Robert,

 Thanks for sharing.  I think that kiddie is great protection, I wish I had that last year.  But being a home detector it is limited to being a catastrophic alarm. 

In it's description it states, " it is designed to sound at 85 decibels at 10 feet when it detects 70 ppm (parts per million) of CO for 60 to 240 minutes, 150 ppm for 10 to 50 minutes, or 400 ppm for 4 to 15 minutes.:

I'm positive that would have would have saved me.  But one nice feature of a high resolution detector (Sensorcon or similar) is detecting a problem well before it's an emergency.  Many exhaust failures happen slowly, over many hours.  It would be nice finding out early on.

Not long after the Sensorcon discount went into effect a gentleman on beechtalk  posted what he found on the first flight with the Sensorcon.  It was a 2008 G36 with 1100hrs TT.  He noticed a rise of 4-7ppm when the heater was on.  The highest reading he saw was 13ppm.  He pulled the muffler and found this. 

5a865adaba309_A36Muffler.JPG.2fa3d58ad746272cdae703923e6822c9.JPG

These detectors are a great tool.

Cheers,

Dan

How many people on this site actually pressure check their mufflers during Annual with the heat jacket opened?

Clarence

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21 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

How many people on this site actually pressure check their mufflers during Annual with the heat jacket opened?

<raises hand>

It's tempting to skip it, because it's a PITA to get the jacket off the muffler down in the lower cowling.  But, with stubby screwdrivers and patience, it's possible to slide the jacket sideways, just about completely off the muffler itself, and then do the pressure check.  Our mechanic taught us this trick at our first annual 14 years ago, and we've been doing it every year since.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Saw this picture on Flickr.  The long exhaust caught my eye, after reading this thread.  Not sure the purpose here unless it is supposed to keep hot gas from obscuring the camera when it looks forward and across?

While it does look clumsy, it does make me wonder if there is a technical reason to not have the belly exhaust pipe on most GA?  Or just cost?

-dan  

T206 takeoff Chris Kennedy Flickr.jpg

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6 minutes ago, Dan at FUL said:

Saw this picture on Flickr.  The long exhaust caught my eye, after reading this thread.  Not sure the purpose here unless it is supposed to keep hot gas from obscuring the camera when it looks forward and across?

While it does look clumsy, it does make me wonder if there is a technical reason to not have the belly exhaust pipe on most GA?  Or just cost?

-dan  

T206 takeoff Chris Kennedy Flickr.jpg

Every time I've seen those in the past (usually on C-172s) it's been for a camera, either in the floor or wherever.   It adds weight and drag and probably a little more backpressure, so those are all disadvantages.

This airplane also has the storm hatch in the window behind the pilot, plus the gimballed camera on the side, so it evidently gets used for photography/imaging a lot.

 

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  • 11 months later...

Tonight marks the 2nd anniversary from my little run in with Carbon Monoxide.  Right now I would be getting loaded into the medevac helicopter.  Despite having a bad cold right now I can say I'm enjoying the evening much, much more than two years ago.

I'm very happy with the response from pilots over the past 2 years.  A lot more airplanes have CO detectors now.  But we did lose 4 people to Carbon Monoxide in a Cherokee in Iowa a few months ago.  I would bet 95% of everyone who reads this post already has a CO monitor, but I ask that you all pester your pilot friends and hanger neighbors to get one. 

The discounts are still in effect. 

20% www.sensorcon.com    code: aircraft2017

20% www.guardian.com       code: coaware

Cheers,

Dan

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Congrats on the second anniversary, Dan!

As long as there are new pilots and new owners, your mission never ends... :) or is it a calling?

in the last two years... Many Mooney owners have purchased good quality CO detectors...

A few MSers have reported back finding exhaust system cracks and other things causing elevated CO in the cabin because they had a CO detector...

Dan has taught us the importance of having a CO monitor... how to buy a good one... and how to maintain it over time, by getting it calibrated... not only that he got us a great discount too!

Nothing like having solid first hand experience when delivering a presentation on the subject... :)

Keep up the good work, Dan!

Keep celebrating the units sold, units calibrated, and CO events discovered before they became accidents!

 

Best regards,

-a-

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On 2/25/2018 at 7:46 PM, Dan at FUL said:

Saw this picture on Flickr.  The long exhaust caught my eye, after reading this thread.  Not sure the purpose here unless it is supposed to keep hot gas from obscuring the camera when it looks forward and across?

While it does look clumsy, it does make me wonder if there is a technical reason to not have the belly exhaust pipe on most GA?  Or just cost?

-dan  

 

We have a lot of similar systems fitted to airframes over here. Most of the time they are fitted for noise reduction, which in many places allows either cheaper landing fees, or less restrictions (eg some airports are "no circuits on Sundays unless noise reduction installed")

Normally they're not too heavy, some are worse than others, most have an inspection requirement though. Check out Liese and Gomolzig

As that looks like a camera ship, I guess they are trying to avoid upsetting those they are filming/photographing(/spying on)

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14 hours ago, DanM20C said:

Tonight marks the 2nd anniversary from my little run in with Carbon Monoxide.  Right now I would be getting loaded into the medevac helicopter.  Despite having a bad cold right now I can say I'm enjoying the evening much, much more than two years ago.

I'm very happy with the response from pilots over the past 2 years.  A lot more airplanes have CO detectors now.  But we did lose 4 people to Carbon Monoxide in a Cherokee in Iowa a few months ago.  I would bet 95% of everyone who reads this post already has a CO monitor, but I ask that you all pester your pilot friends and hanger neighbors to get one. 

The discounts are still in effect. 

20% www.sensorcon.com    code: aircraft2017

20% www.guardian.com       code: coaware

Cheers,

Dan

Congrats on the anniversary and thanks a ton for the work you've done with the vendors and promoting awareness.   Can't help but think of the whole story every time I turn the sensorcon on or off in my airplane.

 

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Does anyone have any real life experiences with how long the CO units last before needing replacement. Does calibration change the figures. I had a cheaper Guardian a long time ago, and after 3 years it malfunctioned. The second one lasted about the same.

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Does anyone have any real life experiences with how long the CO units last before needing replacement. Does calibration change the figures. I had a cheaper Guardian a long time ago, and after 3 years it malfunctioned. The second one lasted about the same.

Don’t know why that would be the case. Some smoke detectors do I believe because they use radioactive substance, which decays over time.

 

 

 

Tom

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2 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

Does anyone have any real life experiences with how long the CO units last before needing replacement. Does calibration change the figures. I had a cheaper Guardian a long time ago, and after 3 years it malfunctioned. The second one lasted about the same.

Don, it's my understanding all of digital CO detectors/monitors have a life limit.  Guardians have a 7 year (TBO) but recommend sending them in for replacement or re-calibration every 5 years.  The Sensorcon portable will operate normally for 2 years without calibration (although the accuracy will wander some).  After the 2 years an EOL warning will display on start up and then operate normally.  The EOL can reset/be extended with calibrations.  Sensorcon told me with regular calibrations they should go 6+ years. 

The Mooney Summit has calibration equipment but unfortunately it was misplaced during this last Summit.  That won't happen again.  I also have the calibration equipment and will try to set a side some time to calibrate at adventure 2019. 

Cheers,

Dan

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31 minutes ago, DanM20C said:

Don, it's my understanding all of digital CO detectors/monitors have a life limit. 

Dan, the sensor inside the particular device is typically life limited, and it's life is independent of unit calibration history.  Typical life expectancy is 5-7 years but varies with the particular sensor and possibly also with the ambient conditions that the individual sensor has been exposed to.  My home units ship indicating that they should be disposed of after 10 years in service.  

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Would like to know if calibrating would fix my unit as I get this about every hour of use. It will clear with turning it off and back on, but it makes me question its usefulness. Started doing this about 10 months after I bought it.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Out of warranty.

 

Sensorcon (2).jpg

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