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Thinking of replacing engine gauges w/ certified digital


wombat

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The IO-360 engine in my 1964 M20E is relatively high time right at 2,000 hours and many years and rather than replace or overhaul it for no known reason I'm considering getting an engine monitor and replacing the existing instrumentation.  Some of the features that I find valuable with this are:

  • Better temperature and leaning control since I can see all 4 cylinders at once
  • Recording of data so I can analyze it later
  • Fuel flow and totalizer plus getting rid of finicky existing fuel gauges
  • Easier engine scan since it's not spread out between the the ends of the cockpit

What I have right now is mostly original with the addition of an EI SR-8A where I can cycle through the different EGTs and CHTs.

The 'contenders' that I know of and their list prices are:

Whole panel (Plus nice view) picture of the current setup in my plane: https://goo.gl/photos/JFcCbL1DHnappGus6

 

I'm leaning toward the GCR-30P or JPI EDM-900 because they are the cheapest that allow me to replace (and sell!) all of the existing gauges and instruments.   Panel space is not a concern; I could add the EDM-930 and a second GPS and keep all of the existing gauges and it would still all fit although that would be tight.

 

Does anybody have any thoughts or ideas?   I'm planning on talking to both manufacturers in February at the Pacific Northwest Aviation Conference & Trade Show later this month.  They generally offer 5% or 10% discounts at the show.  My annual is coming up in March so the timing seems about right.

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The advantage of the CGR is its ability to fit right in front of the pilot.

I like the JPI 930. A small remote display for MP, RPM and alarms goes right in front of the pilot.  JPI puts so much detail on the front page.

Bob's Fabulous E's glass panel is worth a look to see how it all fits...

MVP vs. JPI...   EI appears to be more customer service oriented.  Everyone has challenges, EI seems to solve them quickly.  JPI is disorganized with their approach to simple electronic fixes. They have left a couple of MS members trying to figure out normal instrument installation challenges.

Best regards,

-a-

Edited by carusoam
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Your decision is mostly personal preference.

As many of you know, I analyze data professionally for Mike Busch. All of these units will provide equivalent analysis and diagnostic ability. It comes down to how much panel real estate you want to provide and how feature rich you want to go. The MVP50 is by far the most feature rich, which appeals to many pilots, but in my opinion is largely superfluous. I personally only recommend the GCR-30's in the tightest panels for their smallest foot print. But if that is not a concern, I would go with a larger display. My personal preference and it is only personal, is the EDM-900. its a large enough display that I can see everything easily for my turbo charged engine and doesn't take up so much real estate that I can't still easily keep it close in view.

I also prefer JPI's choice of grounded thermocouples over EI ungrounded ones, at least for CHT, for their greater accuracy. (You might  google around for a DER report that Cub Crafters did a few years ago citing differences in CHT indications between the grounded vs ungrounded probes.) The truth is though any of the ones larger than the smaller GCR-30's will do you well and EI still makes great products in my opinion. Plus I have found both to offer good support, and I use a combination of JPI and EI in my aircraft since I kept my original far right side MAP and RPM for redundancy, but just replaced them with EI digital units with identical form fit of the OEM gauges. 

The far more important thing IMO is to learn how to read or interpret it your monitor. Its providing very valuable data quite capable of saving your engine and avoiding putting your life at risk in addition to paying for themselves time and again in their diagnostic ability.

Edited by kortopates
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I'm starting to look at JPI 900 a little differently after I realized my unit has been back 3 times for issues and possibly soon to be a 4th time in the 18 months it has been installed. My original GEM was installed in 1992 and I never had an issue with it until replaced it with a JPI 830 in 2013. I do have EI gauges on the right side and one of them is the fuel totalizer (F5-PL) that has been in the panel for 20+ years.

I would look at the EI offering closely.

JPI 1.jpg

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5 hours ago, carusoam said:

The advantage of the CGR is its ability to fit right in front of the pilot.

I like the JPI 930. A small remote display for MP, RPM and alarms goes right in front of the pilot.  JPI puts so much detail on the front page.

Bob's Fabulous E's glass panel is worth a look to see how it all fits...

MVP vs. JPI...   EI appears to be more customer service oriented.  Everyone has challenges, EI seems to solve them quickly.  JPI is disorganized with their approach to simple electronic fixes. They have left a couple of MS members trying to figure out normal instrument installation challenges.

Best regards,

-a-

More than 4 years old. I would make the same choices today.

IMG_20160425_114528488.jpg

IMG_20160111_104747402.jpg

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I just put in a MVP along with some Garmin. Ei has been great to work with. Only regret was not angling the display or putting it on the pilots side.

IMG_7969.JPG

I plan on taking full advantage of the unit. Now I'm looking at adding a vacuum, airspeed and CO2 detector probes. Still waiting to hear if I can get the flap, trim and gear positions wired into the MVP as secondary displays.

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I installed a JPI EDM830 and love it. I somewhat regret not stepping up to the 900 but liked the low cost of the 830 plus the inputs were the same as the 700 that it replaced. I agree with kortopates that the size is perfect. I may upgrade this year and if I do I'll stick with JPI and go with the 900. It's what I know and I've had no problems with my 830.

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I installed a JPI EDM830 and love it. I somewhat regret not stepping up to the 900 but liked the low cost of the 830 plus the inputs were the same as the 700 that it replaced. I agree with kortopates that the size is perfect. I may upgrade this year and if I do I'll stick with JPI and go with the 900. It's what I know and I've had no problems with my 830.


Agree on the 700 series. Think about flush mounting I think it looks much better...

90a27e036dd136c16794cde69524fb24.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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14 hours ago, kevinw said:

I installed a JPI EDM830 and love it. I somewhat regret not stepping up to the 900 but liked the low cost of the 830 plus the inputs were the same as the 700 that it replaced. I agree with kortopates that the size is perfect. I may upgrade this year and if I do I'll stick with JPI and go with the 900. It's what I know and I've had no problems with my 830.

+1

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4 minutes ago, Guitarmaster said:

Double check that the 30p will cover all primary functions. It won't in the "F" models. I would have needed both the P and the C to do all instruments. $$$$.
I have the edm900 and love it!

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

Matt - which functions will it not do?

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Matt - which functions will it not do?


It will do all of them, but not at once. I believe the are 9 primary instruments and the EI will only do 7 or 8 due to the small screen size.
I talked with EI at KOSH and they confirmed. Would need both the P and the C to get rid of all primary instruments.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

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Can anyone owning an EDM900 check in their specs documents what is the temperature operating range of the unit? Cannot find this info on their web site. I am wondering if they would survive our Canadian winters here where we often fly at minus 20 C....

Yves

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It will do all of them, but not at once. I believe the are 9 primary instruments and the EI will only do 7 or 8 due to the small screen size.
I talked with EI at KOSH and they confirmed. Would need both the P and the C to get rid of all primary instruments.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Which primary are you not able to get rid of?

I just had an EI-MVP50 installed and the only gauge we kept was for the turboplus intercooler differential.
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33 minutes ago, M20kflyer99 said:

Which primary are you not able to get rid of?

I recently chose the EDM-900 after doing quite a bit of research.  The EDM-900, EDM-930, or MVP-50 are the only units that will allow you to remove ALL required primary engine instruments and replace them with a single unit.  The GCR-30P will replace 6 primary instruments. You can chose any 6, but only 6.

I really like the EDM-900 as it covers all primary engine instruments but doesn't take as much panel space and thus cheaper to install than the EDM-930 or MVP-50.

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On 2/3/2017 at 9:26 PM, yvesg said:

Can anyone owning an EDM900 check in their specs documents what is the temperature operating range of the unit? Cannot find this info on their web site. I am wondering if they would survive our Canadian winters here where we often fly at minus 20 C....

Yves

Yves,

I went to the JPI site to look for the limitations regarding operation temperatures...

They have a user manual, installation manual and all the other documents.  Unfortunately, I was unable to find what is probably three sentences of limitations... temp, rh, and phase of the moon.  :)

So, I sent an email to customer service.  (Monday) 

I'll copy a response here if I get one...

Best regards,

-a-

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As fast as I could type... I got the following response....

****************************************************************************

Anthony,

No. Plenty of EDMs in service in Canada.

 

 

Tim Sullivan

Customer Support

J.P. Instruments Inc.

3185-B Airway Ave.

Costa Mesa, CA 92626

 

 

From: carusoa
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2017 9:30 AM
To: Support <support@jpinstruments.com>
Subject: Re: Arctic temperature limitation question...

 

 



Sent from my iPad


On Feb 6, 2017, at 12:27 PM, carusoam wrote:

There is a question brought up by a potential user from Canada regarding the JPI 900/930 series of devices...
 

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/21212-thinking-of-replacing-engine-gauges-w-certified-digital/#comment-325349


I tried to read the user and install manual looking for a limitations section, but did not find it.  

Are there any temperatures that keep the JPI from functioning or displaying primary data properly?

Best regards,
-anthony-


Sent from my iPad

Edited by carusoam
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