Htwjr Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 I love flying at night but am always concerned about engine failure or really any emergency. Has anyone tried or does anyone use or carry night vision goggles for night flights as an extra safety measure. Will they work from an airplane good enough to pick out a field? Just curious. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 23 minutes ago, Htwjr said: I love flying at night but am always concerned about engine failure or really any emergency. Has anyone tried or does anyone use or carry night vision goggles for night flights as an extra safety measure. Will they work from an airplane good enough to pick out a field? Just curious. Thanks I have thought of this very thing - I think it would take the right kind and a high quality pair and specific training to make them helpful rather than make a bad situation worse. I would be interested what you find out - I for one for now vow off night flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 Night flight is a beautiful, serene experience. In case of forced off field landing, turn on your landing light; if you don't like what you see, turn it off . . . My opinion is that our cockpits don't have space for NVG, but I could be wrong. I'm traveling now (aluminum tube) and am notstaying at a Holiday Inn Express. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Htwjr said: I love flying at night but am always concerned about engine failure or really any emergency. Has anyone tried or does anyone use or carry night vision goggles for night flights as an extra safety measure. Will they work from an airplane good enough to pick out a field? Just curious. Thanks Most of the affordable ones rely on emitted/reflected infrared for close range night vision. Wouldn't help any more than a landing light^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsNobody Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 They significantly impair depth perception. There is a steep learning curve wearing NVG's. Mega expensive for a good set. Thousands...Spend it on maintaining your bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandontwalker Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I fly at night, but generally elect for a higher altitude and O2. This way I have better glide distance, which equals options. I plan night flights so I always have an airport in glide range. (Okay, as close as I can get)Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I've done many night flights over VWa mountains. I essentially make my route airport to airport and stay high enough to be able to glide to an airport en route. There are two or three spots where I'm out of glide distance, but exposure time is minimal (a few mins). There is an Aerostar driver that uses a FLIR camera system over on beechtalk. They may be more common as the avidyne boxes support video input. That's probably a better or equivalent option to non-military grade NGVs. Plus it avoids the panel lighting issues associated with NVG. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotarPilot Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 A decent set of AN/AVS-9 NVGs will set you back around $10,000 USD new. These are pretty much the standard ones used for night time rotary wind aviation by fire, law enforcement and helicopter EMS. Training and regulations regarding NVG use are covered under part 91 and are relatively new. No disrepect to Andrew but I doubt the local USAF base will give you the time of day much less sit down with some Joe Shmo off the street and go over the ins and outs of NVG use in tactical aircraft. I think you'd have much better luck talking to your local helicopter EMS base pilots. I think most EMS rotary wing pilots in the US are trained on and equipped with NVGs nowadays. Oh, and I forgot to mention, the cockpits and instrument panels have to be made NVG compatible. This costs thousands and thousands of dollars. But if money if is no object get yourself a pair of the four tube NVGs used by the Navy Seals. They'll only set you back around $42,500, they're made byL-3 and the model no. is GPNVG-18 - ANVIS. Very cool stuff. Oh and get your training through Aviation Specialties Unlimited in Idaho. They teach NVG flying. Or you can buy the Russian crap for around $500, strap them under the Bose A20s and take your chances with those if you're feeling lucky. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I'm reminded of the terrible movie with Nicoles Cage as an army helicopter pilot who could not adjust to wearing the heads up headset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccdeuce Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 5 hours ago, NotarPilot said: A decent set of AN/AVS-9 NVGs will set you back around $10,000 USD new. These are pretty much the standard ones used for night time rotary wind aviation by fire, law enforcement and helicopter EMS. Training and regulations regarding NVG use are covered under part 91 and are relatively new. But if money if is no object get yourself a pair of the four tube NVGs used by the Navy Seals. They'll only set you back around $42,500, they're made byL-3 and the model no. is GPNVG-18 - ANVIS. Very cool stuff. I am not sure how I feel about the rotary wind comment.... I fly in the helo with AN/AVS-9s at all times when its night. Takeoffs/landings/cruising around - always. This was not always the case 10 years ago. They had night currency and NVG currency. In a helo though it makes sense. My fixed wing brethren however takeoff and land without it. I am not 100% sure I understand the whys for that so maybe someone else can expand - but I don't think you will see the benefit you are looking for. As for the GPNVG-18s not really practical for aviation use in helicopters. You are already have limited depth perception issues and you need to be able to maintain instrument and under goggle scans. I think a better option if its what you are looking for would be a small IR or low light camera. Shoot even the newest phones and tablets have some pretty cool capabilities as far as low light ability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotarPilot Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 The GPNVG-18s definitely wouldn't be practical. They're way too bulky and probably too heavy. I was only joking about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotarPilot Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 6 hours ago, teejayevans said: I'm reminded of the terrible movie with Nicoles Cage as an army helicopter pilot who could not adjust to wearing the heads up headset. Firebirds... truly awful, and I'm a guy who loves helicopters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deb Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, mccdeuce said: I think a better option if its what you are looking for would be a small IR or low light camera. Max-Viz makes an infrared camera system which "blends the imagery from an additional visible light sensor to the thermal sensor which is presented on the display as a single 40-degree wide image through the use of patented image fusion software." http://www.max-viz.com/max-viz-600. It's a factory installed option for Cirrus; there's an STC for single engine Cessnas. At Sun-n-Fun they said one Mooney had the system. AVeeb review here: https://youtu.be/hlblK6A8pEU. Apparently it doesn't display through fog or thick clouds. Edited February 2, 2017 by Deb Added AVweb link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 17 minutes ago, Deb said: Max-Viz makes an infrared camera system which "blends the imagery from an additional visible light sensor to the thermal sensor which is presented on the display as a single 40-degree wide image through the use of patented image fusion software." http://www.max-viz.com/max-viz-600. It's a factory installed option for Cirrus; there's an STC for single engine Cessnas. At Sun-n-Fun they said one Mooney had the system. Supposed to be able to "see" through fog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M016576 Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 17 hours ago, NotarPilot said: A decent set of AN/AVS-9 NVGs will set you back around $10,000 USD new. These are pretty much the standard ones used for night time rotary wind aviation by fire, law enforcement and helicopter EMS. Training and regulations regarding NVG use are covered under part 91 and are relatively new. No disrepect to Andrew but I doubt the local USAF base will give you the time of day much less sit down with some Joe Shmo off the street and go over the ins and outs of NVG use in tactical aircraft. I think you'd have much better luck talking to your local helicopter EMS base pilots. I think most EMS rotary wing pilots in the US are trained on and equipped with NVGs nowadays. Oh, and I forgot to mention, the cockpits and instrument panels have to be made NVG compatible. This costs thousands and thousands of dollars. But if money if is no object get yourself a pair of the four tube NVGs used by the Navy Seals. They'll only set you back around $42,500, they're made byL-3 and the model no. is GPNVG-18 - ANVIS. Very cool stuff. Oh and get your training through Aviation Specialties Unlimited in Idaho. They teach NVG flying. Or you can buy the Russian crap for around $500, strap them under the Bose A20s and take your chances with those if you're feeling lucky. We use the AN/AVS-9 in the F-15C. I used to use them in the F/A-18 as well. I The best way to solve an incompatible light is a little piece of electrical tape.... i think the bleed through in a mooney cockpit would make the AN/AVS-9's totally unusable. Looking out the right side of the F-15 with its incompatable beacons on makes it almost impossible to see.... the mooney cockpit would be way worse than that- unless, of course, you turned off all your internal lights. But the problem there becomes- you can then no longer see the instruments- the NVG's are focused to infinity- and trying to read anything inside of 15 feet is pretty much impossible while looking through them. We always have the goggles mounted a few inches from your eyes: if you need to look at instruments, you do so underneath the goggles, using the NVG compatible lighting in the cockpit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 If you spend the 10K to get a set of googles, I'd be willing to bet that your cockpit is not NVIS compliant. Any normal light in the cockpit will cause the NVGs to bloom and you wouldn't be able to see a thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumstick Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 I have somewhere in the vicinity of 100+ NVD fixed wing landings and in my opinion it is generally not a good idea. Very few airfields have lighting that are acceptable for the use of NVDs and it is difficult to maintain proficiency, particularly for those of us in the pointy nosed world of aviation. The tactical transport folks will also train for low level NVD use as well as landings but it really comes down to appropriate compatible field lighting...in addition to all the cockpit mods that permit their use. A single white/red light in the cockpit pretty much makes the goggles useless due to "blooming" They also aren't a "keep around for emergency use" type item. The need focusing on the ground during preflight using special equipment and they are focused on a single plane - usually infinity. That means you have to be able to see UNDER them to read your instruments unless you have a compatible heads up display. Bottom line - probably an impractical mitigation to the hazards of night flight in a single engine airplane. Best to plan point to point over airfields within gliding distance and to have a Garmin or other device with a "NEAREST" feature to quickly point you in the right direction. Interesting though that someone would have thought of this...somewhere I have some good footage of a thunderstorm that I videoed through my goggles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) What is the objective we are looking for...? 1) real goggles used for real flying/landing situations. 2) expecting to use the plane again. 3) Off airport. Spot landing with a helicopter is pretty challenging. 4) Depth perception is an added challenge like stalling ten feet off the pavement. Ten feet below would be worse. 5) Can we cut back on the expectations to save tens of AMUs? 6) Find a big field and land in it. 7) avoid trees. 8) plane wreckage is survivable, plane has given its best. 9) Do the ex Soviet devices find 10acre fields, From a few thousand feet of altitude? 10) Landing at an airport that is a mile long and matches the picture on the iPad in real time doesn't need NVG does it? Staying on the centerline and descending after the ILS, can leave you at 200' AGL or so... I once bought a huge portable flashlight. Not sure what I was going to light up with it. Or how I was going to use it... still in its original package... I think the OP is looking to become comfortable enough with the plane, to know the chance of an off airport landing happening is incredibly small with well kept Mooneys. Emergencies do happen and a few mooney flights have terminated at airports without the engine running. Best regards, -a- Edited February 3, 2017 by carusoam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M016576 Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 Best way to eliminate the risk of a night, off airport landing is to not fly at night, away from airports. Otherwise, it's something to consider and plan for. Along with natural illumination, weather, terrain, etc, etc. it's all part of each pilots risk management profile. tactical NVG's won't work well due to their light sensitivity and cost, though- and the non-tactical ones might not work at all due to effective ranges. Back to the old mark-1 mod-0 eyeball.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisk Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 I have no experience with NVGs. When I fly at night, I have faith that my engine will keep going. If it stops, and I have plenty of altitude, I'm going for an airport. For most of the country (Texas to Florida), you can glide a long way when your at 18,000. On the other hand, if the engine stops and your only a few thousand feet AGL, are you really going to take the time to fish out the NVGs, buried in your flight bag, with dead batteries that haven't been replaced in 2 or 3 years? That said, when I do fly a rotor craft at night, I really would like to know where a field is vs a stand of trees. This seems like the best approach, and it would be good in mountainous regions too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 just get your wings credit https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/CourseLanding.aspx?cID=175 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M016576 Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 4 hours ago, Yetti said: just get your wings credit https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/CourseLanding.aspx?cID=175 Best advice on the thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 I think the technology is at a place where it would not be that expensive to put a thermal imaging camera in the nose and display it on a screen. How would this work. Well the runway is blacktop or concrete and should stick out like a sore thumb based on the heat signature. I am not sure how landing a plane watching the screen would work out. Maybe like being on instrurments you are just using the screen to help find it and then go to visual. https://www.atncorp.com/thermal-scope-thor-hd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotarPilot Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 I would like to apologize to Vladimir Putin for my comment regarding Russian NVGs being crap. I don't want to die a mysterious death from polonium poisoning. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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