Hank Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 hour ago, MBDiagMan said: Okay, the seller is having a meeting tomorrow morning to come up with a plan to ferry the plane to Longview. You guys reccomendation to take it to Maxwell is being listened to. It was annualed in August, but I am going to spend the additional $645 for an annual, if the prebuy portion goes well of course. thanks for all your comments and encouragement. I will continue posting progress in this thread. Woo hooo!! Here's hoping everything continues to go well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildhorsesracing Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/25/2017 at 3:29 PM, rbridges said: If you buy it, we'll have to show you the secret handshake known only by us C model pilots. You can always tell the C model pilots, their right arm is bigger from the johnson bar exercises. Welcome to the C model club! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLRDMD Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 4 hours ago, MBDiagMan said: Okay, the seller is having a meeting tomorrow morning to come up with a plan to ferry the plane to Longview. You guys reccomendation to take it to Maxwell is being listened to. It was annualed in August, but I am going to spend the additional $645 for an annual, if the prebuy portion goes well of course. Don't expect to get out for only an additional $645. Things will be found that aren't airworthiness items that will be up to you as the buyer to fix or defer. You may defer some but you'll almost certainly want to fix some too "as long as it is already opened up". Don will absolutely keep you informed along the way, but there's no way you're getting the annual done for only $645 more than a pre-buy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) Quick rhetorical question... Ken, how many planes have you bought? Some guys buy a lot of planes as part of their business. Ken has the most experience buying planes as a private individual, like most of us around here... Best regards, -a- Edited January 30, 2017 by carusoam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigers2007 Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 was annualed in August, but I am going to spend the additional $645 for an annual, if the prebuy portion goes well of course. thanks for all your comments and encouragement. I will continue posting progress in this thread. My $1500 prebuy/annual a few months ago ended being like $15,000 by the time it was all over. Rises quickly when you add in shoulder belts and other bare essential must have accessories....Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Well, this deal might be going South. The seller is saying that due to insurance reasons he can't ferry the plane. He wants me to fly in my mechanic and he will be kind enough to pick h up in San Antonio. The amount of the offer that he had agreed to was considerably below his asking price, so I am wondering if he is just stringing me along to see if a better offer comes in. i am not exactly sure what to think. Anyone know if there is a Mooney guru shop other than Dugosh on the field in Kerrville? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) Understand the insurance issue. the policy is expensive and if it just ran out how is he going to move it? moving it without insurance is too high of a risk. It helps if you ask these questions in a discussion with the seller. You are both trying to get to the same point. put down the pitchforks and work together. You will get so much more out of the deal... Where it is going south is the buyer can do more homework. MSCs are listed on the Mooney web site. Realize that some planes have not been to an MSC in years. These owners probably don't want an ill prepared plane to be exposed at a well heeled mechanic shop. MSCs are shops, not just mechanics. They are not usually in the mobile mechanic business for pre-buys. When they go mobile, the pilot has already had a bad day.... Are you buying a plane with a history of MSC maintenance? See where this is going? Best regards, -a- Edited January 30, 2017 by carusoam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted January 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Thanks for the thoughtful response. I must not have written earlier in the thread, this plane has been hangars on the field at Kerrville where it was built. It has been maintained by MSC Dugosh exclusively for the last 30 years. It is likely a VERY solid plane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Can Maxwell ferry the plane under his insurance? Typically if a shop is flying the plane, the shop's insurance is in force. If it were me, I'd probably get Dugosh to do the Pre-buy before I'd fly in your mechanic. Another option is to talk to JD Casteel at Southwest Texas Aviation. He's in New Braunfels, TX. He's a MSC and well respected Mooney shop. He has been known to travel, but might be too busy right now, to take the work. It might be worth a call though. I wouldn't give up on the deal just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Thanks very much for the suggestions. I talked to the Maxwell folks and they are going to work with the seller to see what they can do. We are not done with it yet. thanks again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 7 hours ago, MBDiagMan said: Well, this deal might be going South. The seller is saying that due to insurance reasons he can't ferry the plane. He wants me to fly in my mechanic and he will be kind enough to pick h up in San Antonio. The amount of the offer that he had agreed to was considerably below his asking price, so I am wondering if he is just stringing me along to see if a better offer comes in. i am not exactly sure what to think. Anyone know if there is a Mooney guru shop other than Dugosh on the field in Kerrville? Brian Kendrick lives in Kerrville TX http://www.mooneysupport.net/2.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Thanks very much Lance! I just now left him a voicemail. Might be just the ticket! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Brian returned my call. He is too busy with four to five months of work backed up. He made an interesting comment. He said that he didn't do prebuy on the old planes because they get too neglected and not kept up with. I told him the plane had been maintained by Dugosh for the last thirty years and he changed his tune. He said he would help if I could wait four months. Maybe the seller and Maxwell will come up with a plan. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 On 1/26/2017 at 2:43 AM, Hyett6420 said: Oh we ALL know that one, you dont actually use your hands, you shake feet. I did wonder what you were all doing at the summit last year doing that but then someone explained it to me. I was told the shaking was because of the 3 blade prop 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnoe Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 This has officially become a saga.Without re-reading the entire thread may I ask a couple of questions that may have been answered already?1. Is there a logbook entry for the tanks having been stripped and resealed? If not then set aside $8K for doing that soon.2. Is there a logbook entry for SB208B having been completed? If not you'll want to pull the interior at your PPI. If your personal mechanic has decent eyes and does a little homework there's no reason he can't check for the big "gotchas" like spar corrosion.There's not a mechanic on the face of this earth that can tell you if the lifters/cam on a Lyc360 are going to crap out without at least pulling 2 jugs, and nobody is going to let you pull them in a pre-buy. That risk is yours unless you can negotiate an escrow fund with the seller to warranty the engine.Certainly Don would give you a better PPI but if the plane is the one you want and it looks good then get a field-inspection and fly it to GGG for its next annual. The only way I see you getting it there pre-purchase is for somebody to pony-up the money for insurance and a rated pilot. I imagine Don's already busy enough without having to negotiate on your behalf with the seller.Just sayin'...Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I have indeed seen the entry for the tank reveal and spoke to the man that personally did the work. Is quite confident that the tanks do not leak. What time frame in the logs should I begin looking for SB208B? i am familiar with the risk involved with the high camshaft in the Lycomings. The engine is at 250 hours total time and has been flown regularly, so I am willing to take that risk. Ca guard has also been used which helps the lube stay on the cam longer between starts. Thanks very much for the information. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 cnoe, Thanks again for the input. I did some looking at the SB208B issue. I have not perused the logs for it yet, but given that Dugosh has maintained the aircraft and I spoke to the guy whose nMe is int the logs the most, who says that the aircraft is completely corrosion free, I don't think I am going to find a problem with this, i went through all this when I bought my Cessna 140 some years ago. At that time as wel as now the enthusiast forum brought to the surface lots of information, caution and assistance. I am seeing the sme thing from all you guys (and gals?) and I appreciate everything very much. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnoe Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 cnoe, Thanks again for the input. I did some looking at the SB208B issue. I have not perused the logs for it yet, but given that Dugosh has maintained the aircraft and I spoke to the guy whose nMe is int the logs the most, who says that the aircraft is completely corrosion free, I don't think I am going to find a problem with this, i went through all this when I bought my Cessna 140 some years ago. At that time as wel as now the enthusiast forum brought to the surface lots of information, caution and assistance. I am seeing the sme thing from all you guys (and gals?) and I appreciate everything very much. If the logs aren't fraudulent (and I have no reason to believe they are) I believe this might work out nicely for you. I bet 208B was done years ago. And minor tank leaks aren't a big deal either though a recent thread here discusses a system-wide sealant failure that left the plane AOG with few options. Spar corrosion is the biggie and has killed more than one owner's dreams.I suspect that more Mooneys are pre-inspected by non-MSCs than MSCs and are still in the system. It's just that a thorough PPI at a MSC will likely find things that may help in price negotiations.Enjoy your new plane, and send pics after you pick her up!Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 If David Behrens at Dugosh did the work on this Mooney over the years it has been well maintained. He is one of the best in the business. Very seldom is it advisable to go without a pre-buy but if David Behrens at Dugosh or Don Maxwell's shop or LASAR or TopGun did all of the recent annuals I'd be comfortable with it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 1. Is there a logbook entry for the tanks having been stripped and resealed? If not then set aside $8K for doing that soon. So every plane that hasn't been resealed is about to spring a leak? I gotta believe there is tons of Mooneys that still have factory tank treatments, maybe we need a poll? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnoe Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I'm sure there are many variables such as whether the plane was hangared, tanks kept empty or full, climate, hard landings/training, and maybe even shock-disc age. The first Mooney I partnered in was a ’64 E making it 53 years old this year and after multiple patches (including once by a premier MSC) it was finally stripped and resealed by Edison at WetWingologists a couple of years ago. My J is now 39 (though she tells everybody she's only 29) and it was stripped and resealed by Weep-No-More in 2012. It's still got one seeping rivet on the top of the tank which I'm sure Paul would fix for free but being 959nm away I'll just live with it until it becomes a problem. I could be wrong but it just doesn't seem reasonable to expect the original sealant to last more than 25-30 years.I'd love to see the results of such a poll!Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnoe Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Okay, the poll has been posted. I'm very interested in the results. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) Okay, thanks to some help from my new friends, I have come up with an experienced Mooney guy that will do the prebuy on the field. In fact I will see if he will make it an annual. He can't do it until week after next, but I just now talked to the sellers people and they are coordinating the prebuy/annual. It is again looking like there is a path to ownership. Thanks for all the replies here! Edited January 31, 2017 by MBDiagMan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Woo-hooo!! Keep us posted. You'll love flying a C model, maybe as much as I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBDiagMan Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 3 hours ago, LANCECASPER said: If David Behrens at Dugosh did the work on this Mooney over the years it has been well maintained. He is one of the best in the business. Very seldom is it advisable to go without a pre-buy but if David Behrens at Dugosh or Don Maxwell's shop or LASAR or TopGun did all of the recent annuals I'd be comfortable with it. The above is pretty much how I look at it. I would probably have already purchased the aircraft if Dugosh had not retired. Here is the explanation of that: my mechanic, an old fellow that annuals my 140 and does lots of Mooney work is who I called first after seeing and sitting in the plane. I told him I wanted him to do the prebuy. He said that if Dugosh has been maintaining the plane, there was no need to pay him for a prebuy if Dugosh tells him that all is well. I gave him the tail number and he called Me back shortly afterward. He said with a surprise "Dugosh isn't there anymore, and I don't know any of those other guys." Once that happened, I got off on the Maxwell path, but the owner refused to let the plane off the airport. Since the logs confirm that the plane has been maintained exclusively by Dugosh for 30 years with Boerrens signature scattered all through the logs, I feel good about the aircraft. Having another highly experienced Mooney guy do a prebuy or annual is added insurance and might turn up something that needs to be taken care of. There are never guarantees, but after seeing the airplane, the logs and talking to the guy at Dugosh, I feel very confident that the plane will come through it all well and we will eventually own it. The next hurdle will be finding a ferry pilot to get it to my home field so I can start my complex training. The insurance quote requires 5 hours duel, and 5 hours solo before hauling passengers. My instructor is not keen on the idea of ferrying the plane himself. He ferried an aircraft many years ago that had just come out of annual and had to dead stick it into a field. So now he is not anxious to climb into a strange aircraft for a long flight. My home field is KPRX, Cox Field, Paris, Texas. Thanks again for all the help, opinions and overall good information. I look forward to talking Mooneys and maybe meeting some of you guys in person over the coming years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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