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A new look for N10933


aviatoreb

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1 hour ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

Beautiful interior work.  Where is that shop located?  Do they do Lancairs?

 

The interior has two different stages - one is Mooney specific which is the Jaeger Interiors system - which you can read about if you google that - and it is really everything he says it is - a clean new look and it opens things up noticeably with more elbow room etc.  I highly recommend it for Mooneys.

But the upholstery - the leather - is by SCS interiors and they are in Duluth MN.  They are a biggish company that do many models of airplanes and boats too - I would expect they could do your Lancair with no problem at all.  They do for example also the custom OEM jobs for Cirrus too.  Seems like that is pretty near you.

BTW - I will be VERY near you in April doing an external program review external for programs Marquette University.  KSAW.

 

On another issue I am really CONFUSED.  You're a college professor, heritage from Russia, and you talk like a Canadian or a Yooper?  What's with that?  Eh.....

...well you see eh, we are 15 miles from Canada here in upstate so its all the Tim Horton's - eat enough of their donuts and drink enough of their coffee and next thing you know you start watching hockey and eating poutine.

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16 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Do you or anyone you know use products in your fuel to prevent ice crystals blocking fuel?  I have been doing so for 3 years.  I have been using the avgas version of prist but I read that aviation-pure isopropyl is cheaper and easier to use.  I think this one deserves a new thread.

When Bruce was teaching at the Mooney PPP he recommended using some isopropyl but he thought the automotive stuff was fine.  I have used HEET in the red bottle and the yellow bottle, mostly the red bottle.  But I have found that I never have fuel line freezing regardless of conditions or temperature, so I don't use it anymore.  It is more important to regularly sump, which I do anytime new fuel goes into a tank, regardless of the quality of the FBO or whether I self-fuel or someone else does it.  I just always let it sit a little and sump.  I have never seen water in my tank, I have seen it in a J that was not very well maintained, the well that the fuel cap sits in invites water to stand during rains and if the O ring leaks you will get water in the tank.  Pretty much everyone in the Mooney community knows that one.  Outside of that, I have not seen any water, so I have not used isopropyl for a few years.  On a related note, when I first got the plane I would use the center sump, but I have not used that for several years either.  You have two choices, pull the ring from the inside and let the fuel drain.  Given current regulations you really need to put a pan down to catch the drainage and carrying a pan around is just impractical.  Or you can use a sump cup with the stem that goes in the sump hole from the outside and opens the valve.  I found that works great for the sumps in the wing, but had the center sump jam open once, which was enough, so I just don't use that one anymore.  I have not had any water problems, regular checking of the wing sumps prevents it.

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22 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Do you or anyone you know use products in your fuel to prevent ice crystals blocking fuel?  I have been doing so for 3 years.  I have been using the avgas version of prist but I read that aviation-pure isopropyl is cheaper and easier to use.  I think this one deserves a new thread.

I have been using Isopropyl since I bought my Rocket in 2001.  Just the garden variety I buy in a 5 gallon container from a paint store.  The only time I didn't during the winter, flying in the flight levels, in really cold winter weather, I froze water crystals in my fuel spider.  That was a really fun trip, descended almost 10,000' before it started running normal again.

Tom

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50 minutes ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

I have been using Isopropyl since I bought my Rocket in 2001.  Just the garden variety I buy in a 5 gallon container from a paint store.  The only time I didn't during the winter, flying in the flight levels, in really cold winter weather, I froze water crystals in my fuel spider.  That was a really fun trip, descended almost 10,000' before it started running normal again.

Tom

Eeeeh ghad!

I have read again and again that yes people are getting this problem.  So yes, about 3 years ago I decided to do something about it.  I have been using avgas-grade prist - but that product is a nuisance to handle.  I am switching to isopropyl.  I just bought a gallon on aircraft spruce - not cheap.

How pure is the paint store stuff?

How much do you use?

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I always used Prist in my 261 high altitude flights across the country. All I can say is that while Prist is expensive, and a pain to use as directed, I never had any freezing water problems within the fuel system. If isopropyl alcohol works as well, great. Water droplets freezing in the fuel system is no joke.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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27 minutes ago, Bennett said:

I always used Prist in my 261 high altitude flights across the country. All I can say is that while Prist is expensive, and a pain to use as directed, I never had any freezing water problems within the fuel system. If isopropyl alcohol works as well, great. Water droplets freezing in the fuel system is no joke.


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It's mostly the major pain of the prist system of inserting a tube in the fuel stream that is such a nuisance.  Esp - imagine it is windy, and that little tube is hard to keep in place, and its cold like 15F and you need to keep the gloves off to handle the fuel with one hand, (holding cold metal now), and now it is a two handed operation to fuel with a second hand operating the prist can. SO much easier to dump in a measured cup of isopropyl - if that's good enough that is what I want to do.

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Notice the key word on the label...   'anhydrous'

I believe that is the chemist's word for dry, or no water accidently coexisting with it.

It could be a bummer if you are adding more water than can be absorbed.

Remember to keep capped tightly to keep moisture from entering from the air...

If you find something called rubbing alcohol, the chemistry may be correct, but the amount of water in it it is much higher than 1%.

PP thought only. Not a chemist either.

Best regards,

 

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27 minutes ago, Alain B said:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZSOO4UA?psc=1

 

We use that In cold country .  3% max. of fuel volume . 

Wow - free shipping?  Ironic that your cold weather additive comes from Florida labs.

I am embarrassed to say how much I paid on shipping a $32 gallon of isopropyl from aircraft spruce.

3% - that quite a lot actually.  Really you add about 1.5 gallons into a 50 gallon tank?  That sounds like too much.

I declare myself the closest US based mooney to you up there in cold county Montreal.  Check out how close KPTD is to you.  I gotta see that M20V when it comes.

Edited by aviatoreb
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In my last job, we bought rather a lot of 98% IPA. It came in one gallon brown glass jars. At that concentration, it readily absorbs moisture from the air; the higher the humidity, the more water it absorbs.

A recent trip to the store to buy some for home, I was shocked to see they had a shelf full of 50%. Most of what we used at work had been 70%, with the 98% used for extremely water-sensitive components (fingerprints would ruin the surface finish in just a few minutes unless wiped clean with 98% IPA).

The whole water control thing comes down to keeping the containers pretty full and tightly closed. Good luck . . .

Edited by Hank
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8 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Wow - free shipping?  Ironic that your cold weather additive comes from Florida labs.

I am embarrassed to say how much I paid on shipping a $32 gallon of isopropyl from aircraft spruce.

3% - that quite a lot actually.  Really you add about 1.5 gallons into a 50 gallon tank?  That sounds like too much.

I declare myself the closest US based mooney to you up there in cold county Montreal.  Check out how close KPTD is to you.  I gotta see that M20V when it comes.

Postdam very near , we have to meet someday !  3% per avgas volume is the absolute maximum approved by TCM to use in their engine . The same for P&W . In the gold old days when i used to fly Beaver in the north side of the country we only use 8 ounces per tank at fill-up . But we used it constantly from fall to spring to make sure we dont have fuel icing probleem . At the time fuel was 100-130 . In my 182T , i use about the same amount but every other fill-up.Never had a problem with fuel icing . 

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Got any more details on the prop? Is it the same one they sell for the m20m?

-35lbs on the nose would help out w&b a lot.

 

In previous threads people have stated using the red bottle heet additive. It's isopropanol. I keep some around but haven't had occasion. How much isopropyl are you adding?

Edited by peevee
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1 hour ago, peevee said:

Got any more details on the prop? Is it the same one they sell for the m20m?

-35lbs on the nose would help out w&b a lot.

 

In previous threads people have stated using the red bottle heet additive. It's isopropanol. I keep some around but haven't had occasion. How much isopropyl are you adding?

I did an extensive review about 18 months ago when I got it.

Here is what comes up in the search engine: https://mooneyspace.com/topic/10978-3-blade-vs-4-blade/

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/10470-mt-4-blade-composite-prop-for-m20-r-s-tn/

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/15609-did-erik-get-a-new-prop/

In the last one I made an extensive review on June 13, 2015.  You see I was a bit "fun" first just posting a picture without otherwise announcing it.  Then someone else started that thread.

I do believe - but do not know for sure since I am not with the company- just a private owner - that the M20M STC and separately the M20TN STC as well as the M20R STC all use the same exact blades, but the hubs are different, so they would not be interchangible between blades, but aerodynamically identical.

In addition to the June 13, 2015 review I will add that WOW - I still love it every time I run it.  It is just so SMOOOTH and sounds so good it is hard to describe.  People who hears it tell me the same thing.

It was the weight and balance which was my number one initial reason to look into this and it makes the rocket (and I presume any big bore mooney) no longer such a nose heavy airplane - it will feel in pitch a lot more like a lighter mooney, like a lycoming 4 cylinder.

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5 hours ago, Alain B said:

What kind of performance improvments did you notice with this prop : take off run , climb rate , max speed ? 

 

Yes - all a little better.  Unfortunately I didn't quantify it.  But they publish suggested quantitative improvements at the MT website - in your case I would think using the M20TN STC?  and I agree that they are very consistent with what I see.  BTW - mine was installed by field approval so if the M20V is not covered by the M20TN STC then I bet they could get you the prop anyway.

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There is a significant sound difference from the spectator seats when Erik departs.  The European community seems to like the decibel level of that...

The O's STC was not available in 2012, I went TopProp.

TopProp comes in three varieties.  Standard, thin, composite...  O3 and Acclaim are the thin variety, I believe...

Composite blades have the significant lightness.  The owner has to choose from paint not sticking, weathering outside and stopping quickly and low inertia challenges during a botched start...

That list is mostly non-issues today...

PP thoughts only, I've only bought one new prop in my life....

Best regards,

-a-

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40 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Yes - all a little better.  Unfortunately I didn't quantify it.  But they publish suggested quantitative improvements at the MT website - in your case I would think using the M20TN STC?  and I agree that they are very consistent with what I see.  BTW - mine was installed by field approval so if the M20V is not covered by the M20TN STC then I bet they could get you the prop anyway.

I spoke to some guy at MT Prop, i dont recall is name , but he sound like he was very familiar with this prop , he mentioned that they are willing and able to use the Acclaim TN STC and it would not be a problem , i was surprised at the needed delay for delivery . I spoke also to a Florida guy who had installed this prop in his Acclaim . His comments were : smooth as hell , however he also mentionned not being a performance guy so he could not stated any numbers . My plan is to get the 310 hp STC and this prop . I am asking myself how much both can improve the Acclaim performance . The M20V and the M20TN are basically the same airplane , except for the different cabin construction , i dont expect any problem with both STC . 

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5 minutes ago, peevee said:

I want that Mt prop for our rocket. What's the amu damage? 

For a M20TN prop , i was quoted ( september 2016 ) $ 15450.00 for the prop-carbon fiber spinner combination , $ 1000.00 for the nickel leading edge and $ 1400.00 for TKS . Those are basics " non-negotiated " numbers . I was also requested a 50 % deposit on order. 

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46 minutes ago, Alain B said:

For a M20TN prop , i was quoted ( september 2016 ) $ 15450.00 for the prop-carbon fiber spinner combination , $ 1000.00 for the nickel leading edge and $ 1400.00 for TKS . Those are basics " non-negotiated " numbers . I was also requested a 50 % deposit on order. 

The nickel is a superb option and I highly recommend if you re spending all that money anyway.

Props are expensive...

Edited by aviatoreb
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1 hour ago, yvesg said:

Don't know if you have to pay tax, shipping on top of this but if you do, this will amount to almost what I have paid for my M20C four years ago. 

Yves

Have you figured the exchange rate ??  LOL 

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2 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

The nickel is a superb option and I highly recommend if you re spending all that money anyway.

Props are expensive...

Yes i am planning for it . Hopefully Mooney will get the TC soon ! 

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The 310hp and topprop performance is a T/O shortener...  the O1 experienced a 1200' before and 800' after T/O.  Measured using a skyradar and CloudAhoy app.  The details are in the STC...  climb rates are 2,000fpm.

The TN'd Acclaim will have better numbers all the way up...

Speaking with the guy who wrote the STC is worth the phone call.

Not sure if you can squeak any more performance out of the four blade composite prop, but it would be fun to try.

An interesting question to ask during the process...  the IO550 comes in two versions (g) and (n) the N has newer cylinder cooling fin designs.  And weighs a few pounds less.  It may be good to ask.

Best regards,

-a-

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