kelty

Still in Denial

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midlifeflyer    480
8 hours ago, jrwilson said:

Isn't that a New Jersey thing?  They say "all due respect," and then say something crazy?  I think I saw that on jersey shore or something...

 

There are regional variations. The one down here in North Carolina is the opposite direction. Say something bad about someone and follow it with, "bless his heart."

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Hank    3,356
5 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

There are regional variations. The one down here in North Carolina is the opposite direction. Say something bad about someone and follow it with, "bless his heart."

Here in Alabama, its "bless his heart, he just don't know any better than to . . . " whatever the act of stupidity was. 

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MyNameIsNobody    980
1 hour ago, Alan Fox said:

Coming from the FAA certified lunatic of Mooneyspace.....I believe that rating is called the Douchebaggery rating.....

That's a solid rating, but ONLY if you also own a Trans Am.

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MyNameIsNobody    980
1 hour ago, Alan Fox said:

Grumpy middle aged man.....Short too....Maybe a little bit of a "Napoleon" complex going on also... And I totally agree with these threads providing good info...

Lucy needs a nickel.

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MyNameIsNobody    980
1 hour ago, Alan Fox said:

All good Peter Garmin......  Mooneyspace has a very large penis , and its YOU !!!!

Warning!  Complete Conflagration.  Eject!  Eject!  Eject!

(smoke from aircraft archs and slowly...and then picks up speed as craft heads for earth)

Fade to black....

END

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DMJones    137
On 1/5/2017 at 0:36 PM, carusoam said:

Summary of some of the things I think I read...

1) Everybody cares about the pilot and passsenger.

2) sometimes 1) gets lost in the writing.

 

I'm late to the discussion, as I've been working.  But I thought maybe I could throw in my 2 cents.  Just as a point of reference, I just went over 20,000 total time, I'm type rated in the 727, L1011, 737, 757, 767, DC9/MD88, and the A319/320/321.  Over 2000 hours in the F-15, 1200 in the T-37, and a master instructor in the USAF.  USAF Flight Examiner, Designated FAA Examiner and Line Check Airman.  I was an accident investigator for over 20 years, both military and civilian, and participated in over 2 dozen major mishaps with many fatalities.

 

The things I know for a fact:  

I could have done what the OP did.  NO ONE expects bad stuff to happen, and when it does, it catches you by surprise, as we all think we've planned and thought ahead.  The ONE thing we've missed is the thing that happens.  

It takes a HUGE amount of guts to admit a mistake.  I've learned more than I already knew by reading this thread.  I truly respect the OP for coming on here and teaching me something.  

No matter how smart I am, I guarantee there is much I don't know, and more that I have to learn.  Hopefully any time someone makes a mistake, they'll come on here and help me to avoid the same mistake.  

@carusoam Your post was extremely helpful to me, thanks for that.

@kelty  Good luck to you in the future, and thanks for sharing your experience.  The Navy used to publish a series called "Grandpa Pettibone" wherein aviators shared their mistakes and mishaps.  I think I learned as much from that as any other source.  Your willingness to come on here, and do just that honors the service.

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Danb    994

Dave the next thing you will tell us is that your qualified!

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Hyett6420    1,340

@Alan Fox @PTK  gentlemen we saw the other day another thread which turned extremely nasty.  Can we please try not to turn Mooneyspace into PilotsofAmerica.  While you are slagging each other, the rest of us have to watch and listen, which can be a tad umm irritating.  

What i personally love about MS is that fact that everyone gets along even if we disagree, name calling is not right, and is a playground and politicians antic is it not?  

I know that Peter loves analog gauges and marauder loves glass. Neither will convince the other that they are right but they just get along. Can we not do the same on this?   Me for instance will never intentionally run a tank dry and gsxrpilot is saying otherwise. We will agree to disagree etc.  

You have both been lovely to me and helped me immensely and I value your contribution to everything but personal attacks I don't believe belong on MS.  

Love you both

Andrew

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DMJones    137
41 minutes ago, Danb said:

Dave the next thing you will tell us is that your qualified!

Only qualified to learn.

And this happened yesterday, near my home:

http://www.ajc.com/news/local/update-small-plane-lost-power-before-crash-cobb-airport/aXaxlaEsdkxaHywkdodaYJ/

I'd love to hear what happened, from the pilot.

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kelty    68
16 hours ago, mooniac15u said:

1) Go re-read the original post and look at the pictures. He wasn't in the pattern. He was 5 miles out and his gear was up. 

2) I have done nothing but defend him against the dentist's claims so I think your ire is misdirected. 

3) Please re-read my last post. It and my calculations were not critical of his actions in any way. In fact I said he didn't have time to troubleshoot.  

If you want to pick a fight you should find someone else to fight with. 

If I were to guess, it was probably about a minute from when the engine quite to when we hit the trees.  I did originally have the gear down, but raised them right away when I realized that we were just a glider.

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Hyett6420    1,340
15 minutes ago, kelty said:

If I were to guess, it was probably about a minute from when the engine quite to when we hit the trees.  I did originally have the gear down, but raised them right away when I realized that we were just a glider.

Interestingly, and bear with me.  In the film Sully the AAIB ran a load of sim tests to show he could have made the airport with two engines out.  Sully then said hold on, there is a 30 second delay before any human realises that they have an issue. (Think that long silence after a car crash). When they reran the sims with the 30 second delay before the pilots did anything, they didn't make the airport.  

So effectively there is 30 seconds when we don't do a thing which means that you actually had 30 seconds when you were doing something. I bet your gf is bloody glad you are a f18 driver with reflexes accordingly.  

Andrew

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Alan Fox    738
23 minutes ago, kelty said:

If I were to guess, it was probably about a minute from when the engine quite to when we hit the trees.  I did originally have the gear down, but raised them right away when I realized that we were just a glider.

I figured you were in a landing config , I usually have the gear down , the prop forward , and the approach flaps down about 8 miles out , full flaps about 3 miles out..... I'm a bit of a wuss though , at 5 miles , I am still over 2000 feet agl...

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gsengle    957

Now that's a good discussion. I don't go to full landing config until like midfield downwind, with field effectively made... for just this reason.


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Alan Fox    738
56 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

@Alan Fox @PTK  gentlemen we saw the other day another thread which turned extremely nasty.  Can we please try not to turn Mooneyspace into PilotsofAmerica.  While you are slagging each other, the rest of us have to watch and listen, which can be a tad umm irritating.  

What i personally love about MS is that fact that everyone gets along even if we disagree, name calling is not right, and is a playground and politicians antic is it not?  

I know that Peter loves analog gauges and marauder loves glass. Neither will convince the other that they are right but they just get along. Can we not do the same on this?   Me for instance will never intentionally run a tank dry and gsxrpilot is saying otherwise. We will agree to disagree etc.  

You have both been lovely to me and helped me immensely and I value your contribution to everything but personal attacks I don't believe belong on MS.  

Love you both

Andrew

I think in this case , it wont get to that , Neither myself or Peter care what the other says or thinks....Just mindless entertainment....

 

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Hank    3,356
5 minutes ago, gsengle said:

Now that's a good discussion. I don't go to full landing config until like midfield downwind, with field effectively made... for just this reason.


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Me, too. Five miles out I'm usually still descending around 160 mph or so. I like to be at TPA by 3 miles out so I can level off and bleed speed to enter downwind 90-100 mph and drop Takeoff flaps. Gear goes down abeam my intended point of landing, and starts my descent towards the runway. This is all from the Owners Manual.

What is the rationale for setting up landing configuration 5-8 miles from the field??? I've never heard of doing that.

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gsengle    957

That's another thing, the FAA doesn't want you descending into the pattern you should be at TPA just before entering so you don't descend on top of someone...


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Hyett6420    1,340
1 minute ago, gsengle said:

Now that's a good discussion. I don't go to full landing config until like midfield downwind, with field effectively made... for just this reason.


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Now this is definitely a good discussion.  I have always wondered at what point people did what on an instrument approach. Note NOT a VFR approach. 

So me, I put the wheels down and first flaps  at 5 miles or FAF whichever comes first.  Having slowed to 130 knots at IAF.  BUMPFC checks are complete between IAF and FAF. 

I would be interested to know what others do and especially what the Commerical boys rules are. 

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201er    1,630
Just now, Hyett6420 said:

Now this is definitely a good discussion.  I have always wondered at what point people did what on an instrument approach. Note NOT a VFR approach. 

So me, I put the wheels down and first flaps  at 5 miles or FAF whichever comes first.  Having slowed to 130 knots at IAF.  BUMPFC checks are complete between IAF and FAF. 

I would be interested to know what others do and especially what the Commerical boys rules are. 

At the FAF IFR, abeam numbers on downwind VFR. I thought this was standard?

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gsengle    957

Yes in IMC down at FAF, and flaps too, or I'll never get back to extension speed :-o


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midlifeflyer    480
18 minutes ago, 201er said:

At the FAF IFR, abeam numbers on downwind VFR. I thought this was standard?

IFR, gear down and approach flaps (if used) at the FAF/GSI is indeed pretty standard.

VFR, abeam the numbers downwind, not so much. After all, who says you are going to have a downwind? I've seen a pretty wide variety of good procedures, the most important factor to me being procedural consistency.

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201er    1,630
26 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Geez, Alan. Gear and approach flaps down and prop full forward 8 miles out?  To each his or her own and of course that is a very safe approach, but it is hardly an efficient way to fly.  I'm typically still all cleaned up and burning 6.5 GPH LOP when I enter the pattern.

All the time spent with gear down is wasting fuel. So I'd rather power back early and enjoy the high speed descent and efficiency and then put the gear down in the pattern. Plus it takes some time to slow down to gear speed anyway!

IFR mixture/prop forward at FAF

VFR mixture/prop on base

Edited by 201er
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Guitarmaster    721
Now this is definitely a good discussion.  I have always wondered at what point people did what on an instrument approach. Note NOT a VFR approach. 

So me, I put the wheels down and first flaps  at 5 miles or FAF whichever comes first.  Having slowed to 130 knots at IAF.  BUMPFC checks are complete between IAF and FAF. 

I would be interested to know what others do and especially what the Commerical boys rules are. 

Stabilized by 1000 AGL IFR and by 500 VFR. Depending on what particular jet is following me.

Stabilized by 1000 in the airliner always.

Stabilized = Target speed, on GS, landing config.

Thanks to the OP for having the balls to share this! Everyone who has never made a mistake in an airplane, raise your hand.... crickets.

When you rat on yourself after making a mistake, it makes us all safer. The airlines have done it for years with the ASAP program.

Still in search of the perfect flight......

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Marauder    5,617
@Alan Fox @PTK  gentlemen we saw the other day another thread which turned extremely nasty.  Can we please try not to turn Mooneyspace into PilotsofAmerica.  While you are slagging each other, the rest of us have to watch and listen, which can be a tad umm irritating.  
What i personally love about MS is that fact that everyone gets along even if we disagree, name calling is not right, and is a playground and politicians antic is it not?  
I know that Peter loves analog gauges and marauder loves glass. Neither will convince the other that they are right but they just get along. Can we not do the same on this?   Me for instance will never intentionally run a tank dry and gsxrpilot is saying otherwise. We will agree to disagree etc.  
You have both been lovely to me and helped me immensely and I value your contribution to everything but personal attacks I don't believe belong on MS.  
Love you both
Andrew


Andrew -- there is a backdrop to these guys. First of all they know each, secondly, I believe they are based at the same airport and finally they are both from Jersey -- need I say more?!

I lived in Jersey for a number of years. It is the only state where someone yelling at you can be a compliment. These boys are just doing a bit of Jersey bantering.


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Alan Fox    738
5 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Geez, Alan. Gear and approach flaps down and prop full forward 8 miles out?  To each his or her own and of course that is a very safe approach, but it is hardly an efficient way to fly.  I'm typically still all cleaned up and burning 6.5 GPH LOP when I enter the pattern.

Think of it this way , Because I am slow and dirty , I can carry more altitude further in ( easier to descend fast dirty)  I am generally still above 2000 agl 8 out , more altitude = more glide .... Its a safety thing for me....  If you are really worried about burning an extra few pints of fuel , you need to find a new hobby ,    Search the threads here , 100 k airplane destroyed because fuel was cheaper elsewhere.......Yes I know , not a very popular statement , I'm not here to win a popularity contest .... Here to learn from others , help others , Break Peters balls......

Edited by Alan Fox

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gsengle    957
Think of it this way , Because I am slow and dirty , I can carry more altitude further in ( easier to descend fast dirty)  I am generally still above 2000 agl 8 out , more altitude = more glide .... Its a safety thing for me....  If you are really worried about burning an extra few pints of fuel , you need to find a new hobby ,    Search the threads here , 100 k airplane destroyed because fuel was cheaper elsewhere.......Yes I know , not a very popular statement , I'm not here to win a popularity contest .... Here to learn from others , help others , Break Peters balls......


Still doesn't make sense to me, you can descend clean and fast and then drop gear as you level off while entering the pattern.


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