Jump to content

Still in Denial


kelty

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, flyboy0681 said:

It clearly says to use all of the fuel in the second tank yet goes on to say "Do not allow the engine to lose power or quit before switching tanks".

How's that?

Carbed engines usually sputter and cough, giving warning of impending starvation. Did so the first time I ran a tank dry; the second was a sudden quietness with notary a hiccup, but I was watching closely and switched over immediately. The pitch down was immediate and also a surprise . . . Can't imagine that at 1000 agl or less, I was cruising at 9500 . . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, mooniac15u said:

According to my POH you get about 2nm of glide from 1000AGL at best glide speed (~90 knots).  It takes about 80 seconds to travel 2nm at 90 knots.  It takes a little time to identify that you have a problem and then the priorities should be 1) fly the plane and 2) find the best field.  Not much time left for troubleshooting before all attention has to be dedicated to putting it down as safely as possible.  If you try to troubleshoot first you risk losing an opportunity to find a safe landing area.

Respectfully , best glide is attained , with the gear UP , and the flaps UP , and the plane ALREADY at the determined speed , Don't know about you , but I don't fly a J model in the pattern , or on approach , with the wheels UP , or the flaps UP , and certainly not at 90 KNOTS....   So Take that 80 seconds and cut it in half , Flaps and gear will decrease your glide SUBSTANTIALLY ,  also how much altitude will you lose pitching the nose down to gain the needed 10 to 15 knots to get to best glide????   Lets not second guess someone who made lemonade , with multiple LEMON TREES !!!!!!      AND PLEASE DO NOT BE THE NEXT GUY TO RUN OUT OF FUEL........ ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE TRYING TO SAVE MONEY BUYING OFF FIELD !!!!!!!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

Ive learnt a ton from this post, one thing however scares the faeces out of me.  Why oh why are some of you deliberately running tanks dry.  What happens if the engine doesnt start again, you are 100% buggered and not in a good way.  Please guys, what ever your reasons, please dont do this, it is playing Russian Roulette with your lives and more importantly those sweet little innocent kids lives in the back as well..

 

I believe this is a classic case of irrational fear based on ignorance, resulting in actual dangerous behavior.  Unless you have 20 gal (10 per side) defined as unusable fuel in your personal minimums, running a tank dry at altitude is a safer method of fuel management.

Intentionally and deliberately running a tank dry as part of a well thought out fuel management policy is safe. The engine will always restart when proper procedures are followed.

This irrational fear is one of many that are dispelled by actual data in the APS course. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Alan Fox said:

Respectfully , best glide is attained , with the gear UP , and the flaps UP , and the plane ALREADY at the determined speed , Don't know about you , but I don't fly a J model in the pattern , or on approach , with the wheels UP , or the flaps UP , and certainly not at 90 KNOTS....   So Take that 80 seconds and cut it in half , Flaps and gear will decrease your glide SUBSTANTIALLY ,  also how much altitude will you lose pitching the nose down to gain the needed 10 to 15 knots to get to best glide????   Lets not second guess someone who made lemonade , with multiple LEMON TREES !!!!!!      AND PLEASE DO NOT BE THE NEXT GUY TO RUN OUT OF FUEL........ ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE TRYING TO SAVE MONEY BUYING OFF FIELD !!!!!!!

1) Go re-read the original post and look at the pictures. He wasn't in the pattern. He was 5 miles out and his gear was up. 

2) I have done nothing but defend him against the dentist's claims so I think your ire is misdirected. 

3) Please re-read my last post. It and my calculations were not critical of his actions in any way. In fact I said he didn't have time to troubleshoot.  

If you want to pick a fight you should find someone else to fight with. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, mooniac15u said:

1) Go re-read the original post and look at the pictures. He wasn't in the pattern. He was 5 miles out and his gear was up. 

2) I have done nothing but defend him against the dentist's claims so I think your ire is misdirected. 

3) Please re-read my last post. It and my calculations were not critical of his actions in any way. In fact I said he didn't have time to troubleshoot.  

If you want to pick a fight you should find someone else to fight with. 

Not trying at all , that's why I precluded with respectfully ,  Respectfully !! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Alan Fox said:

Not trying at all , that's why I precluded with respectfully ,  Respectfully !! 

Isn't that a New Jersey thing?  They say "all due respect," and then say something crazy?  I think I saw that on jersey shore or something...

IMG_3850.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, jrwilson said:

Isn't that a New Jersey thing?  They say "all due respect," and then say something crazy?  I think I saw that on jersey shore or something...

IMG_3850.JPG

That's an attribute unique to Alan's species. It's an evolutionary aberration isolated to a certain geographic area. It's the kind of stuff that drove Darwin nuts! :)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, mooniac15u said:

Fair enough. I guess it was the all-caps and all the exclamation points that gave me that impression. :)

No not at all , the caps were directed to really drive home the lesson to ANYBODY willing to learn....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, PTK said:

That's an attribute unique to Alan's species. It's an evolutionary aberration isolated to a certain geographic area. It's the kind of stuff that drove Darwin nuts! :)

Coming from the FAA certified lunatic of Mooneyspace.....I believe that rating is called the Douchebaggery rating.....

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Come on Alan your a grumpy old man to aren't you? As for killing this thread I wouldn't, these are the types of discussions that may make our decision making better, many sad incident's we have discussed contain many useful comments. Just be civil, most are.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Danb said:

Come on Alan your a grumpy old man to aren't you? As for killing this thread I wouldn't, these are the types of discussions that may make our decision making better, many sad incident's we have discussed contain many useful comments. Just be civil, most are.

Grumpy middle aged man.....Short too....Maybe a little bit of a "Napoleon" complex going on also... And I totally agree with these threads providing good info...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Alan Fox said:

Grumpy middle aged man.....Short too....Maybe a little bit of a "Napoleon" complex going on also... And I totally agree with these threads providing good info...

It's ok Alan, Napoleon had a very short penis too! And it's somewhere in NJ!

http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news/napoleons-penis-lives-up-to-its-reputation

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alan, I have the same philosophy about flying, and it serves me well also!

At the hold short line I say out loud "what will kill me on departure" (silently if passengers). That reminds me to make sure trim, controls and fuel are set one last time.

The other good thing about this thread is that it's reminded me to be less compliant about fuel use during long cross country flights. I used to print out a log from FltPlan.com and cross check fuel. These days since I use the iPad I just kind of glance at the totals, reserves and keep track of every 10gal on the fuel flow meter, but don't track use versus plan.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, jrwilson said:

Isn't that a New Jersey thing?  They say "all due respect," and then say something crazy?  I think I saw that on jersey shore or something...

 

There are regional variations. The one down here in North Carolina is the opposite direction. Say something bad about someone and follow it with, "bless his heart."

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

There are regional variations. The one down here in North Carolina is the opposite direction. Say something bad about someone and follow it with, "bless his heart."

Here in Alabama, its "bless his heart, he just don't know any better than to . . . " whatever the act of stupidity was. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Alan Fox said:

All good Peter Garmin......  Mooneyspace has a very large penis , and its YOU !!!!

Warning!  Complete Conflagration.  Eject!  Eject!  Eject!

(smoke from aircraft archs and slowly...and then picks up speed as craft heads for earth)

Fade to black....

END

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/5/2017 at 0:36 PM, carusoam said:

Summary of some of the things I think I read...

1) Everybody cares about the pilot and passsenger.

2) sometimes 1) gets lost in the writing.

 

I'm late to the discussion, as I've been working.  But I thought maybe I could throw in my 2 cents.  Just as a point of reference, I just went over 20,000 total time, I'm type rated in the 727, L1011, 737, 757, 767, DC9/MD88, and the A319/320/321.  Over 2000 hours in the F-15, 1200 in the T-37, and a master instructor in the USAF.  USAF Flight Examiner, Designated FAA Examiner and Line Check Airman.  I was an accident investigator for over 20 years, both military and civilian, and participated in over 2 dozen major mishaps with many fatalities.

 

The things I know for a fact:  

I could have done what the OP did.  NO ONE expects bad stuff to happen, and when it does, it catches you by surprise, as we all think we've planned and thought ahead.  The ONE thing we've missed is the thing that happens.  

It takes a HUGE amount of guts to admit a mistake.  I've learned more than I already knew by reading this thread.  I truly respect the OP for coming on here and teaching me something.  

No matter how smart I am, I guarantee there is much I don't know, and more that I have to learn.  Hopefully any time someone makes a mistake, they'll come on here and help me to avoid the same mistake.  

@carusoam Your post was extremely helpful to me, thanks for that.

@kelty  Good luck to you in the future, and thanks for sharing your experience.  The Navy used to publish a series called "Grandpa Pettibone" wherein aviators shared their mistakes and mishaps.  I think I learned as much from that as any other source.  Your willingness to come on here, and do just that honors the service.

  • Like 24
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.