EDM 900

[carusoam]

Definitely review the offerings from Ceis. A better probe in terms of accuracy than the originals.

Getting the originals working right is a lower cost, and excellent idea.

How accurate is your FF system? (My best friend for evaluating fuel used) easy to screw up when not reset properly.

Best regards,

-a-

[aajones5]

I don't have any kind of FF system installed currently I just go by the numbers in the POH and those have been fairly accurate for me so far. Based on what y'all have said I guess I'll have to get whatever is wrong with the fuel gauges fixed while they put in the EDM, hoping it's not a crazy increase in cost.

 

[carusoam]

It is hard to follow all the advice of all Mooney pilots.  

Some are further along the economic trail than others.

Others have had their kids grow up and leave the house.

Some have beyond successful careers.

 

The fun part is we all have the same challenge of achieving speed and efficiency of flight while maintaining a certain level of safety.

Best regards,

-a-

[DXB]

It sounds like most of the folks here have had very positive experiences with the EDM 900.  The experience with mine, which I put in my C model a year and a half ago, has been mixed.  It was very nice to tear out all the primary gauges.  Most functions on it have worked very well, and having a good monitor is totally worth it.

HOWEVER, my RPM sensor, which plugs into the vent port on a mag, started behaving erratically and then quit working after 6 months.  It was replaced.  Now the new one is starting to act funny.  Though RPM may not be absolutely essential,  when the thing starts fluctuating wildly upon rotation and makes me think I'm overspeeding (turns out I'm not), it is an incredible distraction.  Also if you get a 900, consider having a snubber valve put in the MP line at the time of install. My MP reading bounced erratically - annoying distraction in the visual field. Software fix from JPI didn't help. Then they sent a snubber valve but refused to send an adapter fitting to make it attach to their own transducer. It took a while to sort what adapters I needed in the shop. JPI has been less than helpful on the phone.  And I wish I had kept my old RPM and MP gauges as backups.

If I had to do it again, I would go with EI for sure.  These complex installs are rarely problem free, but EI's customer service reputation is much better. Chances are you'll need some customer service after the install at some point.  

[Marauder]

It sounds like most of the folks here have had very positive experiences with the EDM 900.  The experience with mine, which I put in my C model a year and a half ago, has been mixed.  It was very nice to tear out all the primary gauges.  Most functions on it have worked very well, and having a good monitor is totally worth it.

HOWEVER, my RPM sensor, which plugs into the vent port on a mag, started behaving erratically and then quit working after 6 months.  It was replaced.  Now the new one is starting to act funny.  Though RPM may not be absolutely essential,  when the thing starts fluctuating wildly upon rotation and makes me think I'm overspeeding (turns out I'm not), it is an incredible distraction.  Also if you get a 900, consider having a snubber valve put in the MP line at the time of install. My MP reading bounced erratically - annoying distraction in the visual field. Software fix from JPI didn't help. Then they sent a snubber valve but refused to send an adapter fitting to make it attach to their own transducer. It took a while to sort what adapters I needed in the shop. JPI has been less than helpful on the phone.  And I wish I had kept my old RPM and MP gauges as backups.

If I had to do it again, I would go with EI for sure.  These complex installs are rarely problem free, but EI's customer service reputation is much better. Chances are you'll need some customer service after the install at some point.  

As Dev pointed out, the JPIs aren't problem free. Mine has been back twice for issues, most recently a green line across the display. I also had an issue with the 900 causing an open squelch on my Garmin GTN. They finally provided a ferrite filter to deal with it.

My EI units, including a 20+ year old fuel totalizer have been rock solid. The only reasons I didn't go with the EI was the size (small for their round unit) and cost for the MVP unit.

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[Bob_Belville]

I've had a 930 for over 4 years. I sent back to the factory once along with a transducer chasing something, RPM or Oil Pressure, I forget. Both the brain and the transducer checked out fine but I got the firmware updated. They turner the unit around is a day or two. (Unlike APS who took about 3 weeks to decide they could find nothing wrong with their governor.)

Early on I did get the snubber for the MAP. We did need an adapter for the plumbing mismatch. As I recall it is a pretty standard fitting.

FWIW, I have communicated with JPI many times, mostly by email, and found them responsive and knowledgeable. Most recently they were spot on diagnosing a badly fluctuating FF as the fuel selector leaking air into the line going to the fuel pump. A little air in that line really confuses the FF turbine.    

[Kelly Householder]

On 12/31/2016 at 8:14 AM, Bob_Belville said:

I'd recommend you consider the 930 if you can find the extra space. Compare the display to the 900 which does the same thing but is quite a bit smaller.  (The 930 is 5.58"w x 5.11"h and the 900 is 5.81"w x 3.47"h)

I was able to put the 930 above the co-pilot yoke where it is easily visible and reachable from the left seat.

 

 

Bob - Curious what you used for the fuel gauge conversion to the 930?  I've been told that this is sktechy at best but seems you have it working.

[Bob_Belville]

Kelly, we had the old float senders (AC Delco resistance type ) rebuilt by Air Parts of Lock Haven while the 930 was being installed. The EDM info is only as good as the sensor. I expect to go with CiES senders, which should be more reliable and precise, at some point but what I have now is working pretty well. SOP for me is to fill the tanks for any trip. With 54 gallons to start that is more range than I need between pit stops. The past year we did do two 4.5 hour plus legs - NC to WI and NC to NH buring about 40 gallons for 600 nm LOP. The FF accumulator is very accurate. 

[Kelly Householder]

Ok good to know Bob.. so you really are just using the DAC of the 930 to the old floats.. I just had both my floats rebuilt so seems I would be in good shape.. No doubt there is no way it can be worse than the stewart warner gauges already in the plane that are miles off anyway  . I use the FF from my 830 as my primary means for fuel and it's within 2 10ths of a gallon most of the time.

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Kelly Householder

[Aerodon]

On 2016-12-30 at 11:37 PM, aajones5 said:

Hello,

I'm brand new to this site, I just joined so I could post some questions I have about my M20C. I've had it since August now and it's the first aircraft I've ever owned. It's a fantastic airplane, but needless to say I've encountered a lot of questions. I'm looking for a high quality engine monitor, and I'm really liking the EDM 730, 830, and 900 and I'm having trouble deciding which one I should get. I've got a mechanic who says he can order them at cost, but he hasn't gotten back to me with exact prices yet. Based on experience as far as features and quality versus the price go which one is a better deal and how much does it generally cost for installation.

Thanks

AA,

I've been working with another M20C owner to make a RHS panel to accept an EDM930.  I have a CNC machine and can make any shape per your and your IA requests (owner produced part).  I've made two versions so far for the M20C - one has the 'dropdown' for the OEM gauges.  This is for where owners retain the OEM gauges and install an EDM830 above it.  The other is 'straight across', so the panel looks better - one continuous line from the LHS all the way across.  A blanking plate is installed and can be used for a few more circuit breakers.  Then the overlay panel is installed to replace the plastic and mount the EDM900 or 930.

Aerodon 

supercub180@gmail.com

 

[Guitarmaster]

On 1/1/2017 at 3:25 PM, gsxrpilot said:

Compare the price you're mechanic gives you with the price from Aircraft Spruce. There looks to be about a $950 difference between the 830 and the 900. You might also compare to the EI CGR-30P.  It's also Primary and will come in a little less then the EDM-900.

Full disclaimer, I'm having the EDM-900 installed right now in my K.

The problem with the CGR is there are not enough primary functions to replace all the gauges.  In order to do that you need to have the "C" as well.  This brings the total package to about $5400.  

The EI gauge is good, but it just doesn't do enough for a Mooney.

[Guitarmaster]

On 12/31/2016 at 9:14 AM, Bob_Belville said:

I'd recommend you consider the 930 if you can find the extra space. Compare the display to the 900 which does the same thing but is quite a bit smaller.  (The 930 is 5.58"w x 5.11"h and the 900 is 5.81"w x 3.47"h)

I was able to put the 930 above the co-pilot yoke where it is easily visible and reachable from the left seat.

Dangit Bob, now I have panel envy again....  

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, Guitarmaster said:

Dangit Bob, now I have panel envy again....  

I'll make it worse for you since my panel is what your 1975 F COULD look like if you weren't such a Cheap Bast$#d!

And for the future...

[StevenL757]

So, in your "future" scenario...does the RECESS label over the Aspen mean those two displays will "take a recess" permanently while you incorporate a G500 and GAD43/43e into the mix?

Sorry...couldn't resist.  ;-)

Tip your waitresses...

[Marauder]

So, in your "future" scenario...does the RECESS label over the Aspen mean those two displays will "take a recess" permanently while you incorporate a G500 and GAD43/43e into the mix?
Sorry...couldn't resist.  ;-)
Tip your waitresses...

It ain't gonna happen. BTW -- I didn't realize Peter Garmin has a brother. Steven Garmin. I like the sound of that.


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[rbridges]

all this engine monitor talk got me to send an email to Electronics International.  It looks like a lot of my gauge sensors can be reused with a new primary unit.  The couplings to the unit have to be changed however.  This could save a few bucks on the install end of things.  Have you guys looked at the EI offerings?  Any reason you went with JPI?

[Marauder]

all this engine monitor talk got me to send an email to Electronics International.  It looks like a lot of my gauge sensors can be reused with a new primary unit.  The couplings to the unit have to be changed however.  This could save a few bucks on the install end of things.  Have you guys looked at the EI offerings?  Any reason you went with JPI?

Cost and display size. Their CGR unit is primary but is pretty small in size. The bigger display unit is nice but up there in price.

Like I mentioned earlier, EI products are great. My FP-5L has been in the panel for over 20 years and worked flawlessly since then. When I installed the EI MP and RPM gauges, I noticed the lighting was different than the older fuel totalizer's light. Apparently they moved from an incandescent bulb to LEDs on the newer units. They retrofitted my FP-5L with the LED and performed a check on the unit to make sure it was still operating correctly -- all for $60.




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[Guitarmaster]

all this engine monitor talk got me to send an email to Electronics International.  It looks like a lot of my gauge sensors can be reused with a new primary unit.  The couplings to the unit have to be changed however.  This could save a few bucks on the install end of things.  Have you guys looked at the EI offerings?  Any reason you went with JPI?

Not enough primary functions to cover all of the instruments in the EI.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[N6758N]

14 hours ago, Marauder said:

I'll make it worse for you since my panel is what your 1975 F COULD look like if you weren't such a Cheap Bast$#d!

And for the future...

Chris,

Are you having a new panel cut when you do the Lynx and ESI?

[Marauder]

Chris,
Are you having a new panel cut when you do the Lynx and ESI?

Yep. New panel on the left and middle. Waiting for the CAD drawing to decide how much needs to be done.

The left side is still the original Naugahyde covered panel. The holes don't match either.


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[N6758N]

3 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

Yep. New panel on the left and middle. Waiting for the CAD drawing to decide how much needs to be done.

The left side is still the original Naugahyde covered panel. The holes don't match either.


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Awesome! Can't wait to see it when its done.

[gsxrpilot]

8 hours ago, rbridges said:

all this engine monitor talk got me to send an email to Electronics International.  It looks like a lot of my gauge sensors can be reused with a new primary unit.  The couplings to the unit have to be changed however.  This could save a few bucks on the install end of things.  Have you guys looked at the EI offerings?  Any reason you went with JPI?

I really wanted to go with an EI.  But the only model they have that will allow for the removal of ALL engine instruments is the MVP-50. And it's expensive and takes up a lot of panel real estate. It is comparable to the JPI EDM-930. But a display that large would require quite a bit of panel rework which increases the cost.  The JPI EDM-900 gives me all the primary instruments and still fits into an existing hole in the panel.

I had the first flight with mine today and while there are still a few bugs to work out, the display is beautiful and having everything organized in one screen is really nice.

[donkaye]

9 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I really wanted to go with an EI.  But the only model they have that will allow for the removal of ALL engine instruments is the MVP-50. And it's expensive and takes up a lot of panel real estate. It is comparable to the JPI EDM-930.

It is true, they an be compared, but in my opinion they are NOT comparable.

[rbridges]

Thanks. I was just leaning towards EI since I had EI gauges and could possibly use the existing probes. 

[donkaye]

3 minutes ago, rbridges said:

Thanks. I was just leaning towards EI since I had EI gauges and could possibly use the existing probes. 

In my opinion the MVP-50 is the best engine monitor out there, but if you have a  C Model Mooney it is a bit overkill.  The cost, even at a discount is close to ⅓ the total cost of your plane.