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EDM 900


aajones5

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Hello,

I'm brand new to this site, I just joined so I could post some questions I have about my M20C. I've had it since August now and it's the first aircraft I've ever owned. It's a fantastic airplane, but needless to say I've encountered a lot of questions. I'm looking for a high quality engine monitor, and I'm really liking the EDM 730, 830, and 900 and I'm having trouble deciding which one I should get. I've got a mechanic who says he can order them at cost, but he hasn't gotten back to me with exact prices yet. Based on experience as far as features and quality versus the price go which one is a better deal and how much does it generally cost for installation.

Thanks

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I really do love the 900 and I thought about getting rid of a lot of my engine gauges, but my instructor told me to hold on to them as a secondary backup. My main concern with the 900 however is the price, I can't really afford to go overboard and the JPI website doesn't list a price for the 900.

 

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3 hours ago, aajones5 said:

Hello,

I'm brand new to this site, I just joined so I could post some questions I have about my M20C. I've had it since August now and it's the first aircraft I've ever owned. It's a fantastic airplane, but needless to say I've encountered a lot of questions. I'm looking for a high quality engine monitor, and I'm really liking the EDM 730, 830, and 900 and I'm having trouble deciding which one I should get. I've got a mechanic who says he can order them at cost, but he hasn't gotten back to me with exact prices yet. Based on experience as far as features and quality versus the price go which one is a better deal and how much does it generally cost for installation.

Thanks

I agree with the others, EDM 900 is absolutely awesome.

3 hours ago, aajones5 said:

I really do love the 900 and I thought about getting rid of a lot of my engine gauges, but my instructor told me to hold on to them as a secondary backup. My main concern with the 900 however is the price, I can't really afford to go overboard and the JPI website doesn't list a price for the 900.

 

Prices are here:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/edm900.php?clickkey=29444

JPI offers a rebate until January 20th. I bought mine two years ago and got the same rebate. But... don't wait until January 19th to order... there is a substantial amount of information you have to provide JPI to order the system, and most of it will have to come from your mechanic. They are also sticklers about the rebate... the orders have to be completed by COB the 20th or no rebate.

I understand your instructors knee-jerk reaction about having a backup, but unless he is leaving you a few blank checks from his checkbook, you may want to consider overriding him. The factory gauges are aging and getting very expensive to repair. 

However, if you decide to keep the existing gauges, you can go with the cheaper 800/830 route. JPI had to spend a lot of money to get these devices certified as primary, and that shows up in the purchase price of the 900. And as I mentioned above, it saves you a bunch of money in future maintenence bills, and recognition of that value shows up in the price as well. If you are going to keep them, get an 8xx and don't pay your mechanic for removing that equipment.

And speaking of install time, unless your mechanic has installed 20 of these things in a vintage Mooney, reserve a significant buffer (25-30%) to his install estimate. It's very invasive, and install times can be 20 to 40 hours. It is time consuming. You won't believe the process just to calibrate the fuel tank sensors.

All that said, this was the single most valuable upgrade I've made to the airplane.

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I got my 830 on a rebate deal a couple years ago. I think it was $500 back and all optional extras were included.  I recall paying about $2100 for everything.  Install was $1700 for me, but I wish I had done most of it with IA signoff, as some of the install wasn't all that clean.  

I have already needed my original oem gauges 2 times, so for me, keeping the originals did have some merit.    I would like to have the panel space back though.  

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1 hour ago, Ratherbflying said:

I agree with the others, EDM 900 is absolutely awesome.

Prices are here:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/edm900.php?clickkey=29444

JPI offers a rebate until January 20th. I bought mine two years ago and got the same rebate. But... don't wait until January 19th to order... there is a substantial amount of information you have to provide JPI to order the system, and most of it will have to come from your mechanic. They are also sticklers about the rebate... the orders have to be completed by COB the 20th or no rebate.

I understand your instructors knee-jerk reaction about having a backup, but unless he is leaving you a few blank checks from his checkbook, you may want to consider overriding him. The factory gauges are aging and getting very expensive to repair. 

However, if you decide to keep the existing gauges, you can go with the cheaper 800/830 route. JPI had to spend a lot of money to get these devices certified as primary, and that shows up in the purchase price of the 900. And as I mentioned above, it saves you a bunch of money in future maintenence bills, and recognition of that value shows up in the price as well. If you are going to keep them, get an 8xx and don't pay your mechanic for removing that equipment.

And speaking of install time, unless your mechanic has installed 20 of these things in a vintage Mooney, reserve a significant buffer (25-30%) to his install estimate. It's very invasive, and install times can be 20 to 40 hours. It is time consuming. You won't believe the process just to calibrate the fuel tank sensors.

All that said, this was the single most valuable upgrade I've made to the airplane.

Welcome to the site and for having purchased one of the best airplanes in the world (if not the best). I agree the JPI 900 is the best option. Just to share my experience with you. I installed a JPI 830 as a "secondary", while I kept the rest of the original gauges. However, over time my JPI started to show some differences with the steam gauges. It made me very nervous. I started to doubt both... So I decided to bite the bullet and upgraded to a 900. Indeed it takes about 40 hours to install (but it also takes 40 hours to install a 830...), but it is worth while every dollar. What I really like is having all the information in one place just in front of you. If something is out of sync a light comes up and alerts you. 

 

Really one of the best upgrades that can be made to your Mooney.

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I'd recommend you consider the 930 if you can find the extra space. Compare the display to the 900 which does the same thing but is quite a bit smaller.  (The 930 is 5.58"w x 5.11"h and the 900 is 5.81"w x 3.47"h)

I was able to put the 930 above the co-pilot yoke where it is easily visible and reachable from the left seat.

20140227_JPI LOP.jpg

IMG_20160425_114554227.jpg

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I agree with the rest that going for an instrument that is capable of being your primary, makes more sense. Like Oscar, I started with an 830 and upgraded to the 900.

I elected to remove my primary instruments and I will say that if you kept your primary gauges fro your C, if the JPI needs service, you would still be legal. I needed to send my JPI for a display issue and I was down for almost a week waiting for it to return. Something to consider.

The nice thing about the 900 is that it is small enough to get it close to your center of view. I like the bigger display of the 930, but like Bob's installation, would require it to be mounted on the right side.


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2 minutes ago, Marauder said:

The nice thing about the 900 is that it is small enough to get it close to your center of view. I like the bigger display of the 930, but like Bob's installation, would require it to be mounted on the right side.

There are some very experienced and informed pilots here who like to have their EDM closer to their primary scan, e.g, Chris, Don Kaye..., but I think the choices I made for instruments and avionics given priority over the EDM can be justified. (The RAD above the Aspen in my panel is part of the EDM bringing RPM, MAP, and Alarms front and center.) 

My layout logic puts the highest priority on the highest workload aspects of IMC, takeoff, and landing. The Aspen and the backups: AI, ASI, altimeter as well as the AOA are front & center along with the RAD from the EDM. Taking off into IMC or the final few miles of shooting an approach to 200-1/2 is not about monitoring engine parameters. Once established in climb, through the cruise mode, and during descent is the time when we can fine tune mixture, and FF and monitor pressures and temps. 

Of course, to each his own.

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JPI needs to add an upgrade path from 830->900. When I went from 700 to 830 they had a deal going, AFAIK there is no such deal for 900 upgrade.


The only deal you have going is that many of the sensors can be re-used and it makes it cheaper to install and easier to sell the 830.


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Welcome aboard AAJ...

Go fly the wings off the C.

The day you realize that the modern digital gauges give you the data that you want. Select the 900 or 930...

You will know the benefits of the primary instruments.

You will be able to spout why the tach and Hobbs doesn't work for you.

you will ask things like why does this not work like it should...?

It is kind of hard to spend the AMUs based on what somebody else is telling you.

My goal is to select a panel that is ultra modified and see if I can copy it over time...

in my case, DonKaye and Steven757 has some really nice panels for the Long Body.

As you can see, Bob and Marauder have spectacular panels for the short and mid body birds.

You might want to tell us if you have your IR..?  This is a sign that you really appreciate lots of really strong instrumentation...

getting equipment at cost is nice... install cost is usually where things go awry.  That's a lot of wires and connections that aren't stamped out in a factory at highly automated speeds....  you are paying a highly trained worker for the hours they put in.

Best regards,

-a-

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Not much to add..Just remember in addition to the install there might be additional work needed to actually remove old and refab partial panel to make it all fit. This will also be labor hours over and above. Just be prepared for the unexpected..trust me, I know :)

I started with the 830 and a now have the 930. I like the upgraded 930, but if working with a new plane and tight budget you can't go wrong with the 830 as a great start, it was a great piece of equipment and easy to manage priced right. All depends on your future plans.

-Tom

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10 hours ago, aajones5 said:

I really do love the 900 and I thought about getting rid of a lot of my engine gauges, but my instructor told me to hold on to them as a secondary backup. My main concern with the 900 however is the price, I can't really afford to go overboard and the JPI website doesn't list a price for the 900.

 

I removed all the engine instruments last summer in favor of a -900.  

With regard to the "backup" statement from your instructor; my response is, why do you need backup engine instruments?  There is nothing on the -900 that is critical for flight.  Worst case, you lose the whole thing and you will be grounded wherever you choose to land until a replacement is installed.  

I paid $2700 for my -900 at KOSH this year.  All sensors came with it.  I, with my IA, installed it so there was no install cost associated with it, but it was ALOT of work!  If a shop does it, count on roughly 50 hours of labor plus any fabrication to your instrument panel you may need.

I looked at the secondary monitor, but decided for the price difference, the -900 was the way to go.  Truthfully, I don't know how or why I flew around without it for two years.

IMHO, a good engine monitor is worth it weight in gold, or AMU's.  You can catch really expensive problems early and turn them into a minor expense.  My first officer on the last trip had a A36 Bonanza. **I had to watch him closely due to his lack of judgement in airframe selection.** Anyway; He noticed a leaning anomaly on one of the cylinders.  Turns out it was a broke valve spring.  His total cost was $1000.  Had it gone unchecked, it probably would have been closer to 30K.img alt=":)" data-emoticon="" height="20" src="https://mooneyspace.com/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png" srcset="http://mooneyspace.com/uploads/emoticons/smile@2x.png </p></p><p><p><a href='http://mooneyspace.com/uploads/monthly_2016_12/IMG_20161010_141622786.jpg.a3d2704d6c40ef0bbb19507a0080b57a.jpg' class=" ipsattachlink ipsattachlink_image>IMG_20161010_141622786.jpg

IMG_20160930_163343180.jpg

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On ‎12‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 10:09 AM, carusoam said:

Welcome aboard AAJ...

Go fly the wings off the C.

The day you realize that the modern digital gauges give you the data that you want. Select the 900 or 930...

You will know the benefits of the primary instruments.

You will be able to spout why the tach and Hobbs doesn't work for you.

you will ask things like why does this not work like it should...?

It is kind of hard to spend the AMUs based on what somebody else is telling you.

My goal is to select a panel that is ultra modified and see if I can copy it over time...

in my case, DonKaye and Steven757 has some really nice panels for the Long Body.

As you can see, Bob and Marauder have spectacular panels for the short and mid body birds.

You might want to tell us if you have your IR..?  This is a sign that you really appreciate lots of really strong instrumentation...

getting equipment at cost is nice... install cost is usually where things go awry.  That's a lot of wires and connections that aren't stamped out in a factory at highly automated speeds....  you are paying a highly trained worker for the hours they put in.

Best regards,

-a-

Thank you all for the replies, it's making me really lean towards the 900. Yes I have my instrument rating, I'm currently working on commercial and then from there I'm going to get my CFI and perhaps even use my C for instructing for commercial licenses and complex ratings. I have a lot of updated avionics in it, but the main reason I wanted an engine monitor is because my interior fuel gauges don't even work at all I have to rely on my outside wing gauges which aren't very accurate in the air, as well as the added benefit in fuel costs of precision leaning and as Guitarmaster said being able to notice anomalies with the engine and cylinder temperatures which will be great because the C runs very hot on the climb if you don't watch your speed. The only issue keeping me from the 900 now will be the price difference between it and the 830, once my mechanic give me the prices of both if the 900 isn't a crazy amount then I'm definitely going to opt for it.

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Compare the price you're mechanic gives you with the price from Aircraft Spruce. There looks to be about a $950 difference between the 830 and the 900. You might also compare to the EI CGR-30P.  It's also Primary and will come in a little less then the EDM-900.

Full disclaimer, I'm having the EDM-900 installed right now in my K.

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On 12/31/2016 at 10:17 AM, StevenL757 said:

Good call.  The 900 or 930.  Same functionality...both Primary.  Only differences are a bigger piece of real estate and a couple thousand bucks.  :-)

I agree, but any quality engine monitor will put you light years ahead of the factory guages.  I have a UBG-16, but if I didn't, I'd get one of the above.

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4 hours ago, aajones5 said:

... I have a lot of updated avionics in it, but the main reason I wanted an engine monitor is because my interior fuel gauges don't even work at all I have to rely on my outside wing gauges which aren't very accurate in the air, as well as the added benefit in fuel costs of precision leaning and as Guitarmaster said being able to notice anomalies with the engine and cylinder temperatures which will be great because the C runs very hot on the climb if you don't watch your speed. The only issue keeping me from the 900 now will be the price difference between it and the 830, once my mechanic give me the prices of both if the 900 isn't a crazy amount then I'm definitely going to opt for it.

If you do not have any functioning fuel gauges, I don't believe the 830 will help you. It has fuel flow but no fuel gauges. (Someone jump in to correct me if I am mistaken)

If you are going to spend the money to have all of the probes installed and wiring run, the slight increase in the cost of the 900 would be less than upgrading to it in the future. I am looking at that cost right now as I went with the 830 rather than the 900.

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Thank you all for the replies, it's making me really lean towards the 900. Yes I have my instrument rating, I'm currently working on commercial and then from there I'm going to get my CFI and perhaps even use my C for instructing for commercial licenses and complex ratings. I have a lot of updated avionics in it, but the main reason I wanted an engine monitor is because my interior fuel gauges don't even work at all I have to rely on my outside wing gauges which aren't very accurate in the air, as well as the added benefit in fuel costs of precision leaning and as Guitarmaster said being able to notice anomalies with the engine and cylinder temperatures which will be great because the C runs very hot on the climb if you don't watch your speed. The only issue keeping me from the 900 now will be the price difference between it and the 830, once my mechanic give me the prices of both if the 900 isn't a crazy amount then I'm definitely going to opt for it.


You need to find out WHY your fuel gauges are not working. If it's a sender problem, the 900 won't help you a lick.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

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