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kevinw

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10 hours ago, peevee said:

I'm betting this is it. I'm finding it hard to beleive a Turbine pilot would get sdo and go down because he's over a lake at night. 

I've seen this happen (spatial D) to military fighter pilots that receive specific simulator training and annual recurrence just to avoid it.  It can happen to anybody, sadly... and the results are often either terrifying or tragic: it's amazing how quickly a jet can upset its attitude and develop huge... like 10000fpm+...descent rates.  Training and awareness can help...

 

Ive never flown a civilian jet- but in the few military jets I've flown, icing is kind of a non-factor, really- once you're above about 350kts, the skin friction tends to melt it away- and the jets have so much power, you don't even notice it, except on the windscreen.  Inlet icing is a problem, in that you could fod out the motor, but they tend to run just fine (FADECs/DEECs are just terrific pieces of gear) after ingesting some ice and bending a few blades.  Obviously anti-ice should limit this problem.  Is the civilian equipment a little more temperamental than what I'm describing?

man, sometimes I wonder, though.... trying to make yourself your own personal jet airline pilot, just because you are a CEO or have the money.... there is a big difference in the speed between a jet and a piston prop aircraft... and it takes time and meticulous training, even for the few "naturallly talented" pilots out there (of which, I do not count myself one).  On the VFR days, it may be cake... but throw in a mixed, vertigo inducing horizon, blowing snow, icing, night, and maybe an emergency and even the best among us will struggle.  

At some point, this is a profession... not necessarily a just a cool hobby for those with massive piles of cash to turn into burning dinosaurs.  That's why we all have our own personal go-no go decision matrix, right? So our loved ones won't suffer if something doesn't go the way we hoped... Just my opinion, of course....

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  • 3 weeks later...

NTSB preliminary report --- https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20161230X91745&key=1

Pilot was issued a clearance for takeoff with a right turn to heading of 330, climb and maintain 2000' msl. After takeoff he became established on a magnetic course of 310 and climbed to approximately 2952 msl. About 5 sec later he entered a descending right turn at a high rate of descent. The last data point showed an altitude of 775 msl. Total time from takeoff to last data point was 1 minute and 5 seconds. 

He purchased the plane in October 2016. He completed the FAA checkride and received a CE-525S type rating 21 days prior to the accident. 

Sounds like spatial disorientation followed by death spiral in a very fast complex machine? Other thoughts? 

Very sad situation. They have only found 3 of the bodies and the recovery operation was ceased yesterday. 

Thoughts and prayers to everyone involved.

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13 minutes ago, mooneyman said:

NTSB preliminary report --- https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20161230X91745&key=1

Pilot was issued a clearance for takeoff with a right turn to heading of 330, climb and maintain 2000' msl. After takeoff he became established on a magnetic course of 310 and climbed to approximately 2952 msl. About 5 sec later he entered a descending right turn at a high rate of descent. The last data point showed an altitude of 775 msl. Total time from takeoff to last data point was 1 minute and 5 seconds. 

He purchased the plane in October 2016. He completed the FAA checkride and received a CE-525S type rating 21 days prior to the accident. 

Sounds like spatial disorientation followed by death spiral in a very fast complex machine? Other thoughts? 

Very sad situation. They have only found 3 of the bodies and the recovery operation was ceased yesterday. 

Thoughts and prayers to everyone involved.

Speculation here, but it makes me wonder if the autopilot wasn't configured correctly.  Takeoff, switch over to departure, look down having busted your altitude by 1,000 ft, disconnect and overcorrect, become disoriented with the negative (or <1) g's, and it's all uphill from there.  While hand flying, I'm guilty of busting my altitude by a couple hundred feet and trying to get back to my assigned altitude before anyone notices.  Also, if the autopilot isn't doing what I expect, I typically immediately disconnect and fix it myself.  No idea if that's what happened here, but I will definitely think twice about this the next time I'm in the soup and rushing an altitude/heading correction.

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We have a local guy who retired from NetJets. Flew a Falcon 2000 I believe and then some variant of a Citation. Anyway, he told me that one of the fractional owners was checked out in the jet and flew left seat when he travelled. He used one of the NetJet pilots as his safety pilot / babysitter. The NetJet pilot I know said he did a really good job flying the jet. Perhaps this is the way to do it; let the pros fly the fast complex jets but if you have the financial resources and burning desire to fly such a ship (which we all do), have a one of these guys sit right seat with you. Seems to me the way to do it. Anyway, just a thought. Still feel terrible for the families....Can't imagine. God bless.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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