kevinw Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Just read about a Citation C525 that took off from KBKL heading for Columbus after the Cavaliers game last night. Went down shortly after takeoff and it's believed to be in Lake Erie. Very sad. Pilot was a CEO of a beverage company and also onboard was is wife and two teenage sons plus a neighbor and his daughter. Some are already speculating icing. Registration appears to be N614SB and the flightaware info is here. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N614SB/history/20161230/0330Z/KBKL/KOSU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 5TJ Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 I departed KBKL 24R about 48 hours before that C525. Right turn on departure is normal clearance to avoid obstacles. It was 11 pm and light blowing snow probably made visibility zero. Sad, abrupt outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyril Gibb Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 At the time he took off, the visibility was 8 miles and improving in light snow. BKN013 BKN022 OVC032, temp just above freezing on the ground. From the ADSB track, he was only airborne for less than a minute and maybe didn't get as far as the 3rd layer.. That's way too short in light precip for a Citation isn't it? I doubt it was airframe icing. The climb rate 323 ft/min seems anemic... engine issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinw Posted December 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 At the time he took off, the visibility was 8 miles and improving in light snow. BKN013 BKN022 OVC032, temp just above freezing on the ground. From the ADSB track, he was only airborne for less than a minute and maybe didn't get as far as the 3rd layer.. That's way too short in light precip for a Citation isn't it? I doubt it was airframe icing. The climb rate 323 ft/min seems anemic... engine issues? You're probably right. That doesn't sound like icing unless the FlightAware data is incorrect. As far as I know there was no distress call which complicates this even more. Medical issue possibly?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigers2007 Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 Hopefully not another runaway trim issue like the one that downed the UM Survival Flight/Marlin Air Citation out of MKE a few years ago. Those boys only had seconds before they went into Lake Michigan. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 Disorientation with the turn over the lake? Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 News said the pilot got his license two years ago. Not sure how accurate that is. Maybe they meant rating?Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigers2007 Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 I found him in the FAA Airman db and there is no way a CEO had the time to rip out all of those ratings in a year. Probably been a pilot for years; especially if he was described as an "experienced pilot" by his peers. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinw Posted December 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 If that's true Hector I think we are all thinking the same thing. A night IFR flight in a jet with 24 months of PIC. Sounds crazy but possible I suppose with the resources. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 26 minutes ago, tigers2007 said: I found him in the FAA Airman db and there is no way a CEO had the time to rip out all of those ratings in a year. Probably been a pilot for years; especially if he was described as an "experienced pilot" by his peers. The date shown in the FAA Airman Information database for issuing my license is the date I passed my most recent checkride, for the Instrument rating. So the 2014 date shown for this pilot is probably whenever he picked up his last rating, whichever one that was--multi, commercial, turbine, type rating, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 There was a lot of lake effect snow that night, so right at the waterfront, it bet there was tons of ice over the warmer water. I hope he wasn't just rushed to get to the game and missed turning on ice equipment or something like that. It would have been about as quick to drive. Sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 14 hours ago, Cyril Gibb said: At the time he took off, the visibility was 8 miles and improving in light snow. BKN013 BKN022 OVC032, temp just above freezing on the ground. From the ADSB track, he was only airborne for less than a minute and maybe didn't get as far as the 3rd layer.. That's way too short in light precip for a Citation isn't it? I doubt it was airframe icing. The climb rate 323 ft/min seems anemic... engine issues? left the engine anti ice off maybe? similar to palm 90 in NY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 5TJ Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 This week I departed 24R KBKL mid-morning, 2300' overcast, visibility >6, 33F on the ground. Very similar conditions as for the Citation except not in darkness. Departure clearance was right turn to 320. As soon as I began the turn I was looking at grey sky and grey lake, and there was no useful horizon reference. At night in light snow I doubt the pilot could even see the lake surface just below. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 Wings and Rings! The CJ's shed ice well if everything is on and working. Forgetting the tail deice can be an issue as its a seperate switch. If the AP was not on, there is a ton to manage SP in that short amount of time. The engine pressure and Temp sensor on the Williams engines sticks out in open air just behind the inlet. It would be interesting to see the position of the engine anti-ice switch. Rip, -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 19 minutes ago, MB65E said: Wings and Rings! The CJ's shed ice well if everything is on and working. Forgetting the tail deice can be an issue as its a seperate switch. If the AP was not on, there is a ton to manage SP in that short amount of time. The engine pressure and Temp sensor on the Williams engines sticks out in open air just behind the inlet. It would be interesting to see the position of the engine anti-ice switch. Rip, -Matt I'm betting this is it. I'm finding it hard to beleive a Turbine pilot would get sdo and go down because he's over a lake at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 5TJ Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 25 minutes ago, peevee said: I'm finding it hard to beleive a Turbine pilot would get sdo and go down because he's over a lake at night. I am a turbine pilot, one who departed the same runway under similar weather conditions 2 days earlier and it was briefly disorienting for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 Word is (no confirmed by me) that the pilot was a mustang pilot for some time and was type rated in the 525, didn't just get his PPL as some of the news outlets suggest. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Zuffoletto Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 15 hours ago, kevinw said: If that's true Hector I think we are all thinking the same thing. A night IFR flight in a jet with 24 months of PIC. Sounds crazy but possible I suppose with the resources. It's possible. There's a pilot at my home drome who is a wealthy hedge fund manager. He got his PPL and Instrument in less than a year, then he flew a Cirrus SR-22T for two years, then he upgraded to a Citation Mustang with less than 500 hours total time. Fortunately, he's still kicking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 26 minutes ago, Joe Zuffoletto said: It's possible. There's a pilot at my home drome who is a wealthy hedge fund manager. He got his PPL and Instrument in less than a year, then he flew a Cirrus SR-22T for two years, then he upgraded to a Citation Mustang with less than 500 hours total time. Fortunately, he's still kicking. I wonder what that insurance policy looks like. Supposedly, the new Cirrus jet is purpose made for a fellow like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 5 hours ago, peevee said: I'm betting this is it. I'm finding it hard to beleive a Turbine pilot would get sdo and go down because he's over a lake at night. Never say never, it does happen. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 10 minutes ago, M20Doc said: Never say never, it does happen. Clarence Glad I wasn't his cfii then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFromCB Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 3 hours ago, aviatoreb said: I wonder what that insurance policy looks like. Supposedly, the new Cirrus jet is purpose made for a fellow like that. You'd be surprised, probably a lot better than yours or mine, percentage wise. When we had the company KA350, it was $25K a year for 25million liability, 4 million hull and the open pilot clause was any pilot type rated in KA300. Would have been half as much if we were willing to fly with two pilots. He probably only pays $15K a year for the Mustang, at most. Shows you what underwriters think of pistons, for a good reason, may I add. And keep in mind, this insurance also covers FOD, on an engine that costs more than an Acclaim. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peevee Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 ONLY 15k 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFromCB Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 3 hours ago, peevee said: ONLY 15k Well, considering you can pony up about 10K annually for a brand new Acclaim or Cirrus, 15K for an aircraft worth 5 times as much with usually at least 5 times the liability ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 There's a link to NTSB report from a turbine type rated single pilot in a Cessna 525 augering in ME over at this thread on the beechtalk. Things happening twice as fast in the cockpit and a reliance on automation (or not relying on it when it should be i.e. spatial disorientation) do not make turbine pilots immune from such occurrences. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.