Hoping for some guidance

[mooniac15u]

5 minutes ago, jukelemon said:

Hi all.

This one popped up near me

http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/17366829/1970-mooney-m20f

Yes, I know it is high time but the avionics are not too bad? Sub 30k offer maybe and plan for a rebuild?

On a different note and taking this plane as an example...I dont see how you could get this plane to a MSC to have it checked out. I dont see them allowing that.

I am a little confused on the strategy of getting a good Mooney type center/known expert to look at something when the plane is in another location. Not to be dense...but what I am missing here.

A PPI goes without saying...but how did you all get your planes to other people for the prebuy?

Thanks again

You can include PPI logistics during the negotiation.  In this case the aircraft appears to be in Kokomo, Indiana which is only about 35nm from Muncie Aviation which is an MSC.

[Hank]

lemon--

Missing logs could be troublesome, it may be difficult to prove AD compliance. Plan for an overhaul soon, then at least the engine ADs will be done away with. Need to verify all STCs since there is no paperwork in the missing logs . . . At least the prop and GTN are recent enough to be there.

For PPI, the options are:

1. Take the plane to an MSC.
2. Fly a mechanic to the plane.
3. Hire a (semi?) local Mooney-knowledgable A&P who has not worked on the plane.

Someone else here may know a good person in the area to check it out. it may be a good idea to have someone give it an informal look before paying an A&P to start the PPI. Just discuss what you want inspected with the A&P, and rank things in order of priority so that if he finds anything serious, he will know to stop working and put it back together.

Good luck! And keep us informed . . .

[Bart Chilcott]

Jukelemon,

Your mission requirements sound a lot like mine.  I was going through the same decision process a year ago that you're going through right now.  I ended up buying a highly modified E.  My mission is 70% solo, 25% two aboard and 5% three or four.  I'm 5'7" tall and I have as much leg room in the back seat as most commercial airliners and have never had a rear seat passenger complain about roominess.  With that said, if you're over 6" tall, you're rear passengers may have different comments than mine.
I looked for 9 months before deciding what to buy.  I looked long and hard to buy a J but finding one with a lot of upgrades priced below $95,000 proved to be nearly impossible and the J's I did like were all over $110,000.00  .  During my search I learned that avionics were the most  expensive item that I could add and they also had the highest amount of depreciation.  With that said, I made it a priority to find a Mooney with all the avionics upgrades I could get that were already done by the previous owner.  I also decided that a fuel injected IO360 was a non negotiable item along with 500 hours or less SMOH.  I still plan to do a few speed mods to my plane but I'm consistently seeing 155 KTS so those mods aren't a real priority.

My recommendation to you is to list what your priorities are and don't settle for anything much short of that. For me, my list looked like this (and not necessarily in this order) :

1) IO360 with less than 500 SMOH

2) Upgraded panel (glass if possible, waas GPS, synthetic vision, active traffic, XM weather etc..)

3) Auto Pilot with Altitude Hold

3) Manual Gear

4) Hydraulic flaps

5) 1965 or newer

6) Long Range Bladder Tanks or at the very least, newly sealed tanks

7) Newer interior

8) Corrosion Free

9) Longevity of previous ownership

10) Complete logs

My E has worked out wonderfully for my mission.  I have put over 100 hours on her the first year and I'm very happy I didn't pay more for a J with far less equipment.  If and When I do upgrade, it will be a giant leap to a newer J or an Ovation.  But for now, that is not on my radar at all.  From what I've read about your mission, I think you'd be very happy with any vintage Mooney with some nice upgrades.

Welcome to the group and best of luck to you.

Bart

 

 

[jukelemon]

Thanks.

It looks like the logs were rebuilt in 01? I read through all of them. It certainly looks like a plane that was taken care of over the last 15 years.

That one 66# compression was a little disturbing but not too far out.

That group sells planes at really low prices it seems. It has always made me wonder.

I looked at them during my search for a Cherokee 180. Always seemed like very low pricing.

I like the colors. I know the earth colors are not for everyone but I really like browns and such

 

[jukelemon]

3 minutes ago, Whiskey Charlie said:

Jukelemon,

Your mission requirements sound a lot like mine.  I was going through the same decision process a year ago that you're going through right now.  I ended up buying a highly modified E.  My mission is 70% solo, 25% two aboard and 5% three or four.  I'm 5'7" tall and I have as much leg room in the back seat as most commercial airliners and have never had a rear seat passenger complain about roominess.  With that said, if you're over 6" tall, you're rear passengers may have different comments than mine.
I looked for 9 months before deciding what to buy.  I looked long and hard to buy a J but finding one with a lot of upgrades priced below $95,000 proved to be nearly impossible and the J's I did like were all over $110,000.00  .  During my search I learned that avionics were the most  expensive item that I could add and they also had the highest amount of depreciation.  With that said, I made it a priority to find a Mooney with all the avionics upgrades I could get that were already done by the previous owner.  I also decided that a fuel injected IO360 was a non negotiable item along with 500 hours or less SMOH.  I still plan to do a few speed mods to my plane but I'm consistently seeing 155 KTS so those mods aren't a real priority.

My recommendation to you is to list what your priorities are and don't settle for anything much short of that. For me, my list looked like this (and not necessarily in this order) :

1) IO360 with less than 500 SMOH

2) Upgraded panel (glass if possible, waas GPS, synthetic vision, active traffic, XM weather etc..)

3) Auto Pilot with Altitude Hold

3) Manual Gear

4) Hydraulic flaps

5) 1965 or newer

6) Long Range Bladder Tanks or at the very least, newly sealed tanks

7) Newer interior

8) Corrosion Free

9) Longevity of previous ownership

10) Complete logs

My E has worked out wonderfully for my mission.  I have put over 100 hours on her the first year and I'm very happy I didn't pay more for a J with far less equipment.  If and When I do upgrade, it will be a giant leap to a newer J or an Ovation.  But for now, that is not on my radar at all.  From what I've read about your mission, I think you'd be very happy with any vintage Mooney with some nice upgrades.

Welcome to the group and best of luck to you.

Bart

 

 

That is a heck of a cockpit Bart.

Thanks for the tips sir.

[Bart Chilcott]

Just now, jukelemon said:

That is a heck of a cockpit Bart.

Thanks for the tips sir.

You are most welcome.  Enjoy your search, its a big part of the fun but DON'T settle for less than what you set out to find.

[Marauder]

Hi all.
This one popped up near me
http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/17366829/1970-mooney-m20f
Yes, I know it is high time but the avionics are not too bad? Sub 30k offer maybe and plan for a rebuild?
On a different note and taking this plane as an example...I dont see how you could get this plane to a MSC to have it checked out. I dont see them allowing that.
I am a little confused on the strategy of getting a good Mooney type center/known expert to look at something when the plane is in another location. Not to be dense...but what I am missing here.
A PPI goes without saying...but how did you all get your planes to other people for the prebuy?
Thanks again

It's an interesting one for sure. The engine is getting close to TBO and it flew 19 hours each of the past 2 years. I would price it out as a runout.

The 650 in the panel is $10k+ with installation. The King radio should be solid. I didn't look for an AP, but if it had one, it is a plus. The rest of the panel is due for a refresh. The paint and interior look great.

If you were able to pick it up in the low 30s factoring in a $20kish overhaul, I would consider it. There are 17 years of logs, so it wouldn't scare me too much but it does many.


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[Marauder]

There is no autopilot... and don't get enamored with the paint and interior!


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[Drumstick]

Make sure you contact you talk with your lender unless paying cash.  The banks that AOPA has referred me to have all required all logs since new as a condition of lending.  They aren't willing to risk their money on an unknown history.

[Hank]

16 minutes ago, Drumstick said:

Make sure you contact you talk with your lender unless paying cash.  The banks that AOPA has referred me to have all required all logs since new as a condition of lending.  They aren't willing to risk their money on an unknown history.

I financed my Mooney through the local credit union, which I had used to refinance my house a couple of years before. They didn't mention logbooks, mine or the plane's . . .

[jukelemon]

Sat in a C at KLOU

Very comfortable up front and far from the "squeezed in" talk I consistently hear.  Moreover, although I did feel lower it was far from the extreme I thought it would be in comparison to my 180D. Frankly, it didn't feel all that different and I certainly didnt feel the top was caving in lol. Felt comfortable really.

The back seats are, well, really non existent in my opinion. I am not tall by any means but there was very little room behind me when I got into a flying position. But I don't fly that often with 2+.

So glad I caught that Mooney owner when I was pulling in the airport hangars. Gave me a real life perspective.  Now to get into a long body..

 

[gsxrpilot]

41 minutes ago, jukelemon said:

Sat in a C at KLOU

So glad I caught that Mooney owner when I was pulling in the airport hangars. Gave me a real life perspective.  Now to get into a long body..

 

I think you want to try a Mid-body. The price difference between a C and a Long body would probably start at $100K and go up from there.

[pirate]

Just because a plane is flown 20 hours a year means nothing, maybe it was flown locally for .30-.45 min flights weekly. I know many retired guys just flying local sightseeing or Sunday morning gatherings. If frequently flown it could be much better than a guy flying 50 hours a year on occasional 5 hour flights. 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I think you want to try a Mid-body. The price difference between a C and a Long body would probably start at $100K and go up from there.

Agree! Short = A -E; Mid-Body = F - K; Long = L - V.

Midbodies have 5" extra back seat legroom and 5" extra baggage space. Long bodies are more than 24" longer than Short bodies, some firewall forward for 6-cylinder Continentals, some in back seat legroom, some in baggage space. Fs can be had ~60-90 AMU, decent Js seem to start around 90, Ks add 20-30 to that, M and R seem to add 100 to the J price. More or less . . .

[Ragsf15e]

I love my F, but honestly, if I could have afforded an equally maintained and outfitted J while keeping enough cash in my maintenance slush fund I would have done it.   I always miss the extra 10-15 knots.  I'm sure if i had a J, I'd rather have a K.

Buy as much airplane as you can comfortably afford while keeping a reasonable slush fund for maintenance and first year gottchas.  

Operating costs for e, f, and j are roughly the same.

[gsxrpilot]

3 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Buy as much airplane as you can comfortably afford while keeping a reasonable slush fund for maintenance and first year gottchas.  

This is so true... but I would add... you want to buy at the high end of the range. In other words, don't buy the cheapest J you find, buy the most expensive J. But if you can't afford the most expensive J, then look at F's, etc. This will actually save you money. This is more important the older the airplane... and less important on the newer models.

[gsxrpilot]

Just now, bluehighwayflyer said:

Again, this is only true if you ultimately want and want to pay for all the bells and whistles. Otherwise, not so much. Not everyone does.

Dont hate me, Paul. I'm with you most of the time.

Jim

We do agree most of the time ...  

I do think that most Mooney owners will ultimately want to use the plane for IFR cross country travel. It's what these planes are best at. And so sooner or later you're gonna want an autopilot, WAAS GPS, and reliable comms. Add to that the basic safety of an engine monitor and ADSB and you're at the high end of the range for a C/E/F. I also think the chances are better that an upgraded plane like this will also have been flown regularly and will have been maintained to a higher standard. All of which saves money down the road.

So while making a gross generalization here, I'll stand by my theory 

[jukelemon]

15 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I think you want to try a Mid-body. The price difference between a C and a Long body would probably start at $100K and go up from there.

Yes...sorry. The F and J is what I meant.

The K and above are out of my range so "long" is F and J in my world   I know that is not technically accurate from a model lineage perspective.

[ArtVandelay]

Over the many years of ownership, the purchase price of the plane will be dwarfed by other yearly expenses: insurance, maintenance, hangar, avgas, etc. Buy the J.

[Browncbr1]

whatever you get, don't forget to make sure you have shoulder harnesses.. That F is missing that critical safety STC

 

[jukelemon]

Thanks Craig.

 

[jukelemon]

Please send me your contact info.

Thank you for reaching out.

Jason

[eman1200]

3 minutes ago, jukelemon said:

Please send me your contact info.

Thank you for reaching out.

Jason

juke, I believe what you MEANT to say to mooney_mike was:  THIS POST IS USELESS WITHOUT PICS!!!!!!!!!  but I got yer back!

[Candy man]

Pics, price ant total time please.  There maybe a few that are interested. 

[eman1200]

nice looking bird.  that 750 leaves no room for anything else in the center stack!