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ADS-B Resource Thread


Marauder

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4 minutes ago, N6758N said:

I wonder how many of those aircraft don't fly though. Certainly not as many ramp queens as our piston stuff, but there still has to be several thousand aircraft out there in schools, etc... 

I imagine the indirect cost of down time is huge for the thousands of corporate King Airs out there.  

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In the corporate jet world, ADS-B becomes a lot more complex since ADS-B install really only makes sense in conjunction with a WAAS avionics up-grade.  So, you begin talking about new, or up-dated/up-graded FMS as well.  Then there are pilot training/certification issues with the new apporaches....and on, and on, and on.  AND it will all require FAA approval to their operations manuals and you and I know how quickly that will take place!

None of this is quick, easy, or inexpensive.

The FAA has vowed not to grant and extension, but recently it made an exception to allow the ADS-B to be driven by non-WAAS GPS until the WAAS up-grade took place.  Drawing a line in the sand five years in the future may have made sense 5 years ago, but we'll see how it works out on 1 Jan 2020.

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2 hours ago, N6758N said:

The biggest question I have though, is what are you going to do for ADS-B Craig? Inquiring minds want to know!

Until very recently, I was fairly resigned to a TT22 due to being small, light, simple, and integrated encoder at the lower end of the price spectrum.    Now, I want to wait and see if a used market materializes for Garmin’s GTX345r.    My IFR certification is good until 5/19, so no rush.   

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a used GTX345r is going to be a moonshot. I got lucky and found a BNIB uniinstalled one from eBay, and a GTN750 from a salvage place, but the salvage had only sold 3 in ten years.  This and now many avionics dealers, all the ones in Houston for example, refuse to install used equipment.

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Until very recently, I was fairly resigned to a TT22 due to being small, light, simple, and integrated encoder at the lower end of the price spectrum.    Now, I want to wait and see if a used market materializes for Garmin’s GTX345r.    My IFR certification is good until 5/19, so no rush.   


Where you might run into issues is available slots at the avionics shop. The good ones are already booked into the summer of next year.


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1 hour ago, Marauder said:

 


Where you might run into issues is available slots at the avionics shop. The good ones are already booked into the summer of next year.


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A friend of mine who occationally does transponder installs on the side said he would do it for me for beer. ;)  No line to wait, but need to check if the 345 is Tso or stc requiring garmin dealer install only.  It may be a determining factor.   

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  • 4 months later...

I was planning to install the Appareo to comply the ADS-B requirement.  The avionics shop highly recommended the Garmin GTX345. 

Does anyone have an idea on the time to install in a 1963 M20C?  He is quoting me 20 hours, and another 10 hours to move some radios around on the panel.  Both hour quotes seem a little high.  

Thoughts about the GTX345 and/or hours required for the installation?

Thanks!

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depends on what you have now........

1. Probably a new antenna

2. New transponder cable

3. Wiring from an existing WAAS GPS. Pull the unit and the tray, open the connector, add two wires, route to the transponder.

4. If GTX 345 has internal GPS, run antenna cable and install new GPS antenna. Cut a hole, pull side panels and route the cable. 

5. Pitot/Static/altimeter check. 

I would say 20 hours in on the slim side.

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Thank you!  I did not realize it was that involved.
 
What do you think about an additional 10 hours to: remove the DME display, remove old Apollo GPS, and moving radio #2 under the #1 radio in the stack?  


If it will help, most of the shops in my area are installing 345s (without the WAAS GPS built in) for between $6500 and $7000. Maybe you can do the math off of that.


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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

So I was all excited to jump on the IFD 440 train after confirming it would work with the GDL 88 and allow me to keep ADSB in/out. Has anyone gotten this to work? I spoke to tech support and it turns out the GDL 88 can work with the 440 for ADSB IN, but the 440 it is not a compatible GPS source for the GDL 88 to transmit ADSB OUT information. BUMMER! 

So now what? I'm working with avidyne and looking at my options, easiest being to revert back to the G430W  :(

 

I have a GTX 320A for my current transponder so I could get an ADSB out transponder that will talk with the 440 and then keep the GDL 88 to support ADSB IN to the 440, but just how many AMUs am I ok with throwing at this "plug-in-play" system?

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18 minutes ago, J0nathan225 said:

So I was all excited to jump on the IFD 440 train after confirming it would work with the GDL 88 and allow me to keep ADSB in/out. Has anyone gotten this to work? I spoke to tech support and it turns out the GDL 88 can work with the 440 for ADSB IN, but the 440 it is not a compatible GPS source for the GDL 88 to transmit ADSB OUT information. BUMMER! 

So now what? I'm working with avidyne and looking at my options, easiest being to revert back to the G430W  :(

 

I have a GTX 320A for my current transponder so I could get an ADSB out transponder that will talk with the 440 and then keep the GDL 88 to support ADSB IN to the 440, but just how many AMUs am I ok with throwing at this "plug-in-play" system?

I am a bit surprised that the GDL-88 cannot take the WAAS GPS signal from the 440. Something doesn't sound right. If it is true, some thoughts:

Option 1, upgrade the GDL-88 to add the WAAS GPS into it? It is an option on a new GDL-88. "Dual-link Universal Access Transceiver (UAT) ADS-B “Out” with optional SBAS/WAAS GPS".

Option 2, pull the GDL-88, sell it and buy an RTX-345 (it may be compatible with the 440's GPS) or buy a GTX-345 with the WAAS GPS option.

Option 3, pull the GDL-88, sell it and buy an L-3 9000. It comes standard with the GPS and is compatible for "in" on the 440. 

So much for everyone playing nice in the sandbox.

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Here's a post from the Avidyne forum from 8/16/16--

The "to be legal" part is where I would say he isn't completely correct.   The FAA mandate (the "legal" thing here) requires an FAA recognition of compatible compliance by Dec 31, 2019.  That typically is delivered via an STC vehicle (but it doesn't have to be).   So, between now and Dec 31, 2019, you can basically do whatever you want and not be "illegal".

That nuanced set of statements is important operationally.  You are a full-up ADS-B participant with an IFD and an ADS-B Out transponder combo, now.   You just need to make sure, presuming the FAA doesn't change their rules between now and then, that by Dec 31 2019, you have a combination of GPS position source (e.g. IFD540, IFD440, etc) and ADS-B Out transponder that is a FAA-recognized acceptable pair.  

As of Release 10.2, that will include:

IFD4XX/5XX - AXP322
IFD4XX/5XX - AXP340
IFD4XX/5XX - GTX330ES
IFD4XX/5XX - GTX345

Avidyne is the one obtaining the STC that supports those combos.  I would agree with Mike that other vendors are understandably reluctant to seek more STCs that include Avidyne navigators and/or transponders.   They do this for reasons that make business sense to them

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Waiting to hear back from Avidyne's management on some kinda of "affordable" solution to this. I'm still on the fence to revert or not, if I keep the IFD 440 I think the cheapest solution has me selling the GDL 88 and installing an ADSB OUT transponder. I would have ADSB IN via my Merlin receiver with FLY Q still. I lose some integrated ADSB features on the GPS, but I think displaying the traffic on an IPAD instead of the 430 would be better.  The Lynx system is very nice, but comes at an even higher price tag, I don't think the benefits are enough for that additional cost.   

Hopefully I can get some viable solution today, but I don't see me keeping the 440 without throwing in 2-3 MORE AMUs to retain/regain my ADSB out. :unsure::blink:

 

 

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Waiting to hear back from Avidyne's management on some kinda of "affordable" solution to this. I'm still on the fence to revert or not, if I keep the IFD 440 I think the cheapest solution has me selling the GDL 88 and installing an ADSB OUT transponder. I would have ADSB IN via my Merlin receiver with FLY Q still. I lose some integrated ADSB features on the GPS, but I think displaying the traffic on an IPAD instead of the 430 would be better.  The Lynx system is very nice, but comes at an even higher price tag, I don't think the benefits are enough for that additional cost.   
Hopefully I can get some viable solution today, but I don't see me keeping the 440 without throwing in 2-3 MORE AMUs to retain/regain my ADSB out. :unsure::blink:
 
 


If you can wait a few weeks, I’m sure there will be some Oshkosh deals.


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1 hour ago, J0nathan225 said:

Waiting to hear back from Avidyne's management on some kinda of "affordable" solution to this. I'm still on the fence to revert or not, if I keep the IFD 440 I think the cheapest solution has me selling the GDL 88 and installing an ADSB OUT transponder. I would have ADSB IN via my Merlin receiver with FLY Q still. I lose some integrated ADSB features on the GPS, but I think displaying the traffic on an IPAD instead of the 430 would be better.  The Lynx system is very nice, but comes at an even higher price tag, I don't think the benefits are enough for that additional cost.   

Hopefully I can get some viable solution today, but I don't see me keeping the 440 without throwing in 2-3 MORE AMUs to retain/regain my ADSB out. :unsure::blink:

 

 

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AXP340.thumb.JPG.8a62e27097cad7591b631f3905b3725b.JPG

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My PPL CFII is an avionics tech for gulfstream and offered to remove the GDL 88 and GTX 320A and install the AXP 340 and pay half of the cost of the new transponder if he can keep the GDL 88. I'd be all in for ~$750. I wanted to check my math, but it seems like a fair trade to me. An avionics shop quoted 20+ hours for the AXP 340 install @$90!

 

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  • 1 month later...
  • 3 weeks later...

 all info helps. As we all know it is a requirement that must be met.  I'm just looking at the various ways to get this done the cheapest most efficient way possible.  I don't necessarily agree with the regs but we are stuck with them.   My problem is updating an older panel which I feel is a lot more important than spending money on ADS-B to make the FAA regs  happy.  So I will continue to hope to find the least expensive way to comply while leaving some change in my pocket for what is really necessary.    thnx for the threads.   JB

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On 8/12/2018 at 6:31 PM, Browncbr1 said:

For low cost option, check out the trig tt22 and they have a Waas module box sold separately if position source is needed.   It has a built in encoder as well.  

Entertaining enough is the Trig TT22 has the exact same FCC ID number as the Dynon Transponder....

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