Jump to content

Horrific 727 crash


Recommended Posts

Incredibly well documented by two people standing on either side of the centerline.

The plane doesn't drag the tail, and clears the road and the fence.

the videos stay pretty well on focus during the event.  Nice shot of the elevator as it goes by.

Strange...

Prayers for the lost pilot and crew.

Best regards,

-a-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm gonna lay this one on the controller. She kept mis-speaking and the quickly correcting herself. That makes it extremely difficult for a non-native English speaker to understand. If she's gonna work Approach Control in an area with that much international traffic, she has to learn to speak clearly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm gonna lay this one on the controller. She kept mis-speaking and the quickly correcting herself. That makes it extremely difficult for a non-native English speaker to understand. If she's gonna work Approach Control in an area with that much international traffic, she has to learn to speak clearly.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

As I was listening to that exchange I began to wonder if her instructions to turn "southbound" instead of "turn left heading 180" was contributing to the confusion. It maybe that for a non-native speaker a generalization like "southbound" just didn't compute. On top of that correcting herself didn't help if the guy was already having trouble understanding her instructions .

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I listened to that recording and it sounded like - for whatever reason - the pilots were simply not complying with the controllers instructions. The urgency in her voice (2 or three times) should have told them something was amiss and they needed to take action right away. Wasn't their TAWS going off while they continued to head right for the mountains? (OK, I may be confused but TAWS warning - CLIMB ASSHOLE!!!)

This scared the hell out of me just listening to it!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

While searching for more information I came across something eerie. Here's video taken from the same vantage point back in October. No registration is seen so I can't determine if it was the same aircraft.

That's scary but about what one might expect, I guess - 727 freighter, 5900' runway, possibly overloaded. Do we have anyone here with 727 experience? How much runway required at max t.o. weight?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have my performance books near so I can't get true numbers but all that goes out the window if they are overweight.

A little temp rise, a little extra weight (from "guesstimated weights) and you get into trouble if you are runway limited.

The plumes you see at the wingtips in the turn are from fuel dumping. It tells me they knew they had a problem, maybe an engine problem. If they were airborne and climbing even slowly they wouldn't need to dump (unless terrain intervened).  Why they were in the turn I have no idea.  Basic aerodynamics, you lose lift in a turn (wingspan). 

Just as an aside on the old 727-100s-  The tailskid was electric driven. If it didn't retract on gear up it affected range by (IIRC) 14% !!

On corporate, long range 727-100s way back when, if they were going over water it was sometimes known to pull the CB for the tailskid before landing (keeping it up on gear down) so that on the next takeoff for the over water leg it wouldn't be extended and possibly fail and suffer the drag penalty thereby not being able to continue on the over water trip where you needed that range.   

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/21/2016 at 10:21 PM, gsengle said:

Yeah I'd expect in a situation like this a good controller would stop being casual and conversational and start using crisp professional instructions like "turn left heading 180".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think I have ever heard such an instruction by a controller, i.e. without a numerical course heading. Can't be in compliance with controller's handbook. I agree that there was probably a cultural disconnect and if there was an accident I think some causation would have been put on ATC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.