Jump to content

Flying No-Com VFR vs With ATC


201er

Recommended Posts

Some chat in another topic got me thinking about guys flying without talking to ATC. I would guess this is pretty foreign in a Mooney but I could be wrong and would like to hear what others do.

Basically for me I am almost always squawking and talking with ATC (VFR or IFR) with some few exemptions.

-Sometimes local flying (generally under 50 miles or within the same state)

-Below 3000

-Completely uncontrolled airspace (northern Canada)

 

Or put it another way, I am on with ATC any time I'm going cross country, above 3000ft, in or above clouds, or in busy airspace. For the local or low altitude flights, I usually am but sometimes just choose not to bother cause the flight is so short.

 

But is there anyone here who will actually fly high, fly in or above clouds, or be going cross country and not be in contact with ATC?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I usually get FF for shirt VFR trips, like up to Spruce. Sometimes if I'm just out flightseeing and enjoying being in the air, I won't, but only because there's no one nearby--and I have to be a couple thousand feet or more to reach ATL Approach. So y'all be careful, I may be silently flying around the lake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Based in the northeast it seems it's much easier to be talking to ATC than not.  The four facilities I frequent are Phila, NY, Allentown and McGuire.  They always available and I can't recall the last time I was delayed or denied service.   The only time I don't pick up services is if I'm lollygagging around or making a quick hop for some reason - maybe 15-20% of my flights.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, 201er said:

Some chat in another topic got me thinking about guys flying without talking to ATC. I would guess this is pretty foreign in a Mooney but I could be wrong and would like to hear what others do.

Basically for me I am almost always squawking and talking with ATC (VFR or IFR) with some few exemptions.

-Sometimes local flying (generally under 50 miles or within the same state)

-Below 3000

-Completely uncontrolled airspace (northern Canada)

 

Or put it another way, I am on with ATC any time I'm going cross country, above 3000ft, in or above clouds, or in busy airspace. For the local or low altitude flights, I usually am but sometimes just choose not to bother cause the flight is so short.

 

But is there anyone here who will actually fly high, fly in or above clouds, or be going cross country and not be in contact with ATC?

Yes,but was in uncontrolled airspace...basically cleared IFR out of a small BC airstrip to 13k currently 700 Ovc in rain.Instructions were to contact Vancouver Center when able,which was 20-30 min after takeoff...so I was IMC the whole time with no ODP using synthetic vision to navigate through a valley with 11000 ft peaks on both sides.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know a few long time pilots that actually pride themselves in being able to fly cross country with out ever talking to anybody. Not an attitude or habit I share since I'll file for just about any domestic x-country flight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those that fly in busier areas, I am curious if you sometimes avoid talking to ATC, to avoid being vectored about.   For example, about a year ago I had a flight plan heading over the Dallas Class B, which stops at 11,000.  As I recall, my original plan was 15,000.  ATC told me I could either go to 19,000 or well around Dallas.  I can't say I wasn't tempted to cancel IFR and to pick up VFR flight following after passing Dallas.  I went to 19,000 and stayed there for the next 2 hours.

This same sort of vectoring often happens as I cross well above the Austin Tx class C.  Usually it doesn't put me too far outside of my intended path, but there have been occasions.... 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Short fun flights around town usually not even though I'm right under a class B space but if I'm going somewhere usually file IFR or minimum I will get FF.

However, even when just playing I tune into approach and listen in and if I hear them call me out to another plane I will chime in and get a code for better coordination.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, jdrake said:

Based in the northeast it seems it's much easier to be talking to ATC than not.  The four facilities I frequent are Phila, NY, Allentown and McGuire.  They always available and I can't recall the last time I was delayed or denied service.   The only time I don't pick up services is if I'm lollygagging around or making a quick hop for some reason - maybe 15-20% of my flights.

I agree with you on Allentown & McGuire. I would include Harrisburg & Potamic in that group as well. Philly on the other hand has been hit or miss for me VFR. Heck even IFR they can be a challenge. It depends on who is working the freq. My worst experience with Philly was coming back from a glider flying trip (Christmas gift to the wife) with 201er and was coming back VFR. Allentown handed me off to Philly. They weren't extremely busy but decided to drop me on FF unexpectedly and literally seconds away from a traffic conflict. Fortunately I had already seen the traffic and was turning to avoid the conflict. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I,m one of those "old guys" that routinely do long cross countries without turning on the radio. I my case I had to listen to high density ATC (LAX, ORD. JFK, etc) for 30+ years. I now enjoy the peace of going somewhere quietly when I can. Have gone from N AZ to HOU only using the radio for fuel stops.  It's called- "looking out the window" and not fixated inside the cockpit looking at gadgets.:-)  :-)

Look up "Children of Magenta" on youtube

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, jdrake said:

Based in the northeast it seems it's much easier to be talking to ATC than not.  The four facilities I frequent are Phila, NY, Allentown and McGuire.  They always available and I can't recall the last time I was delayed or denied service.   The only time I don't pick up services is if I'm lollygagging around or making a quick hop for some reason - maybe 15-20% of my flights.

I've had Philly TRACON not want to pick me up  a few times - I assume they were push times at KPHL.  I've also had them not take me as a hand off from New York.    Also same experience with McGuire.  Never had a problem when it's quiet.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I used to commute to Tucson every day, IFR was out of the question. The flight took 28 min. The quickest I ever made it IFR was 40 min. The time advantage for flying was only 15 minuets over driving. The main reason I flew was to relax my brain. Flying takes so much less mental power than driving, it was a nice break at the end of the day.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, tony said:

I'm with Cliffy.  I prefer to exercise my god given freedoms as an american whenever I can.  Why would I want someone to tell me where to go and what to do?

Why wouldn't you want someone to advise you where the traffic is and keep an eye out for you in case anything goes wrong?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, 201er said:

Why wouldn't you want someone to advise you where the traffic is and keep an eye out for you in case anything goes wrong?

I agree, but I haven't had any trouble getting routed around places. The last trip I made I had ATC give me traffic advisories two separate times which probably wouldn't have resulted in an incident, but would have been closer than I like...

I do have a friend that regularly flies between Utah and So Cal. He is never is on FF when going over Vegas. He doesn't want to get routed around their airspace so he just climbs up and cruises over the top squawking 1200.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

I do have a friend that regularly flies between Utah and So Cal. He is never is on FF when going over Vegas. He doesn't want to get routed around their airspace so he just climbs up and cruises over the top squawking 1200.

But you can just as well do that VFR and have advisories. Plus the odd chance you get cleared through direct without having to climb over. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 201er said:

But you can just as well do that VFR and have advisories. Plus the odd chance you get cleared through direct without having to climb over. 

Lets say you are approaching class C, on a 350 degree heading, around 1000 feet above the class C, and on flight following.  What do you do when you get something like:   Mooney 201ER, turn heading 270.   It's clear ATC wants to vector you around the class C boundary, even though you are going to be above it and out of their airspace.    Do you comply?  Do you fail to respond to the radio call?  Do you cancel flight following?  Do you claim un-able? or Other?

And then the next time you fly the same route, do you get flight following?  Or do you think to yourself, I'll just look at the ADSB-in traffic on my tablet?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.