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http://www.skywagons.com/airplanes-forsale/1967-mooney-m20f-executive-49900-here-placerville-n9623m

 

I think its been for sale for awhile.  I kind of like it.  The radios are older though.  Just looking to see if I should inquire more about it or keep on trucking?

 

This one has better radios, but no logs before 2009.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20F+EXEC+21&listing_id=2181879&s-type=aircraft

 

I am looking for a "last" plane, so the logs dont really bother me as far as re-selling goes, but its hard to know what was done/happened in the past decades without logs.

 

Thanks!

-John

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If you've got the bell bottom jeans, platform shoes and leisure suit to go with it, that first one is groovy. 

I think either one would be good if you're not planning to do any upgrading. You like the vintage look and want to keep them all original. Assuming they'll pass a pre-buy and have logs that show regular use, do it.

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I recognize the one in Placerville from when I was looking so just checked the spreadsheet I was tracking planes on the market. It was originally in Laguna Beach and listed for $54,500 back on May 23rd. At the time it was listing 88 hours SMOH. Looks like the owner was trying to sell it back then, maybe gave up trying to go it on their own and now Skywagons is selling it.

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13 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

I recognize the one in Placerville from when I was looking so just checked the spreadsheet I was tracking planes on the market. It was originally in Laguna Beach and listed for $54,500 back on May 23rd. At the time it was listing 88 hours SMOH. Looks like the owner was trying to sell it back then, maybe gave up trying to go it on their own and now Skywagons is selling it.

I did the same thing, for 8 months before I decided to buy I tracked all the Js. I got to the point I almost describe a new entry just by looking at the price.

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@Skates97 @teejayevans Anyone shopping for an airplane should follow this method. Undoubtedly you know more about how to value a particular model of Mooney than Vref, AOPA, or any other valuation service.  It's tedious and time consuming, but when making a big purchase that has the potential to grow exponentially bigger, it's effort well spent.  I did the same when searching for my C and again when searching for the 252.

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The guys (2 of them) that run Skywagons are very straight up and are easy to work with.  I've been there several times (especially when I was looking to upgrade this past summer) and they are very accurate with their listings from what I saw.  They sell a lot of airplanes and two disappeared from under me....good folks to work with. 

The day I was there, they had a company detailing and waxing that M20F.  I only took a cursory look at it from a distance though since I was looking for something a little bigger.

The owner of Skywagons (Mark P.) has a very nice M20J hangared at Placerville, so he has good taste.   :)

Cheers,

Brian

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I think the '67 is worth a look.  Seems good on paper, priced to sell, and it's listed on many different for-sale sites, which suggests a motivated seller.

First question I'd ask is how many hours it's flown recently.  The low-time engine is attractive, but only if those 93 hours have been put on in the last couple of years.

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I think the '67 is worth a look.  Seems good on paper, priced to sell, and it's listed on many different for-sale sites, which suggests a motivated seller.

First question I'd ask is how many hours it's flown recently.  The low-time engine is attractive, but only if those 93 hours have been put on in the last couple of years.

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21 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

@Skates97 @teejayevans Anyone shopping for an airplane should follow this method. Undoubtedly you know more about how to value a particular model of Mooney than Vref, AOPA, or any other valuation service.  It's tedious and time consuming, but when making a big purchase that has the potential to grow exponentially bigger, it's effort well spent.  I did the same when searching for my C and again when searching for the 252.

I agree.  I was completely OCD for a year before I bought my plane, ok still am.  I had every Mooney for sale tracked and memorized.  My girlfriend was totally sick of it.  But she never threw down an ultimatum.  Probably because she knew what the outcome would be.  When I bought my plane, I bought her a nice pair of shoes and all was forgiven. :)

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I went to see this model in person since I'm in CA. A few notes I had:

  • Interior / exterior is a bit more shabby than I expected. I went in with low expectations but it was worse than I expected. It really is something like 40 year old decor and has plenty of chips, cracking, stains, etc.
  • No 4-place intercom. Radio jacks only in front 2 seats.
  • I looked through the logs. As mentioned it wasn't flown much over the past few years but it hasn't sat unflown either.
  • Maintenance has been done by a one-man traveling A&P in the Orange County area. I couldn't find the last time the plane has seen an MSC in the logs.
  • Engine was overhauled by Tim's in Long Beach. I used them to overhaul the engine in my last plane and was very impressed by their shop. This is a big plus for me. They overhauled and/or replaced a lot of optional items during the major overhaul process which gave me some good feelings.
  • Door was really hard to close and looked really beat up as a result. I know this is common in these older planes, this one seemed even harder than most.
  • Flaps were really slow to retract - like press the hydraulic release and 3 minutes later they were up slow. I bet in the air with a aerodynamic load this is fine, just a note..

Ultimately, I'm not considering the plane because the process of getting the interior and avionics up to par is easily a $20,000 job. Even after that, I'd still have a plane with a really bad paint job that cost me $60-$70k, depending on what I negotiated - good luck selling that. I think if you don't fly in an area where you need Mode S and you don't mind a pretty ratty overall look and feel, it's pretty likely that this is a mechanically solid plane, assuming there isn't anything majorly wrong with the airframe.

Edited by neonbjb
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  • 4 months later...

Nobody Make Fun of N9623M, I bought her!  She is mechanically decent no corrosion but she is outdated for sure.  With my 50k I was worried about utility and will worry about a J model or upgraded F when I have more cheddar.  I may upgrade 9623m incrementally, but this is not the economical way to go.  Kerry was good at Skywagons but I was ignorant about planes as I am training in the Mooney.  I asked if everything worked several times but so far i have discovered:  flaps raise on their own in flight, manifold pressure guage doesn't work,  audio panel is intermittent (can't hear tower about every other time),  autopilot pulls left (had to disable has ripped bag servo),  starter solenoid breaker pops after every 5 seconds of cranking, panel lights work only when jiggling breaker, and gear indicator is intermittent, the transponder didn't work either but they took care of that.  

Ive only flown it once with my instructor in the two months I've had it.  

Is this normal when buying a new plane?  Could Kerry and Mark at Skywagons not have known about all theses?  Kerry ferried it to Phoenix for me that's a three hour flight, I would think he would have discovered this?  

I'm a little frustrated.  I understand the plane is "as-is" but i relied on them and my pre-buy since i was "plane ignorant".  I dont know if i was deceived or not.  I am fixing the issues as I have time.  This is my first plunge into mooneyspace any response would be great.

Nevermind everything works okay now I just read into Poh bell bottoms and platform shoes I required equipment I was wearing blue jeans and sneakers like an idiot!

Adam

Edited by Grandmas Flying Couch
Add a joke at the end
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15 minutes ago, Grandmas Flying Couch said:

Nobody Make Fun of N9623M, I bought her!  She is mechanically decent no corrosion but she is outdated for sure.  With my 50k I was worried about utility and will worry about a J model or upgraded F when I have more cheddar.  I may upgrade 9623m incrementally, but this is not the economical way to go.  Kerry was good at Skywagons but I was ignorant about planes as I am training in the Mooney.  I asked if everything worked several times but so far i have discovered:  flaps raise on their own in flight, manifold pressure guage doesn't work,  audio panel is intermittent (can't hear tower about every other time),  autopilot pulls left (had to disable has ripped bag servo),  starter solenoid breaker pops after every 5 seconds of cranking, panel lights work only when jiggling breaker, and gear indicator is intermittent, the transponder didn't work either but they took care of that.  

Ive only flown it once with my instructor in the two months I've had it.  

Is this normal when buying a new plane?  Could Kerry and Mark at Skywagons not have known about all theses?  Kerry ferried it to Phoenix for me that's a three hour flight, I would think he would have discovered this?  

I'm a little frustrated.  I understand the plane is "as-is" but i relied on them and my pre-buy since i was "plane ignorant".  I dont know if i was deceived or not.  I am fixing the issues as I have time.  This is my first plunge into mooneyspace any response would be great.

Nevermind everything works okay now I just read into Poh bell bottoms and platform shoes I required equipment I was wearing blue jeans and sneakers like an idiot!

Adam

Congrats on your new plane. What you are experiencing is common for older planes that have not had a lot of tlc lately. Work through the issues with safety items first. Keep at it!

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Nobody Make Fun of N9623M, I bought her!  She is mechanically decent no corrosion but she is outdated for sure.  With my 50k I was worried about utility and will worry about a J model or upgraded F when I have more cheddar.  I may upgrade 9623m incrementally, but this is not the economical way to go.  Kerry was good at Skywagons but I was ignorant about planes as I am training in the Mooney.  I asked if everything worked several times but so far i have discovered:  flaps raise on their own in flight, manifold pressure guage doesn't work,  audio panel is intermittent (can't hear tower about every other time),  autopilot pulls left (had to disable has ripped bag servo),  starter solenoid breaker pops after every 5 seconds of cranking, panel lights work only when jiggling breaker, and gear indicator is intermittent, the transponder didn't work either but they took care of that.  
Ive only flown it once with my instructor in the two months I've had it.  
Is this normal when buying a new plane?  Could Kerry and Mark at Skywagons not have known about all theses?  Kerry ferried it to Phoenix for me that's a three hour flight, I would think he would have discovered this?  
I'm a little frustrated.  I understand the plane is "as-is" but i relied on them and my pre-buy since i was "plane ignorant".  I dont know if i was deceived or not.  I am fixing the issues as I have time.  This is my first plunge into mooneyspace any response would be great.
Nevermind everything works okay now I just read into Poh bell bottoms and platform shoes I required equipment I was wearing blue jeans and sneakers like an idiot!
Adam


Did you have a pre-buy done?


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42 minutes ago, Marauder said:


Did you have a pre-buy done?

 

Probably a little late for that question...

flaps raise on their own in flight, - manual or electric

manifold pressure guage doesn't work, - check line from engine for leaks.  Overhaul or buy gauge from here

 audio panel is intermittent (can't hear tower about every other time),  - check the plugs - possibly replace.  Verify with copilot side. What audio panel?

autopilot pulls left (had to disable has ripped bag servo), - pull and wrap with electrical tape.  I dig scotch 88, but use the 3m stuff that wally world sells

 starter solenoid breaker pops after every 5 seconds of cranking, -  Are you talking the Igniton/cigerate lighter cb?  What is plugged into the cig lighter?   Should not take 5 seconds to crank.  When were the mags done last?

panel lights work only when jiggling breaker - I found loose wires on the panel...

and gear indicator is intermittent, - may be same breaker at the panel lights

the transponder didn't work either but they took care of that.  -  some times clean the contacts.

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Best of luck with the plane. And congratulations??? I hope everything works out and you really enjoy the plane.  Hopefully it doesn't cost you too terribly much just to get it airworthy. It doesn't sound like it would clear that bar right now.

I'm sorry to say but whoever did the pre-buy absolutely ripped you off, as did the guys at Kerry and Mark at Skywagons. 

Unfortunately we can add this to a growing list of similar threads...

 

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Congrats on your plane, we had a big laundry list on our C right after purchasing but you keep after it and you will have a trusty flyer. One advantage is when it's all done you will know everything about your airplane. I highly recommend doing owner assist on as much of the work you can to learn all you can about your airplane. Good luck and try to stay positive.

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Welcome aboard GFC.

You found the thread where people were discussing your plane openly.  It predates your membership by a couple of months...

You have a long road in front of you.  Many of us have started with a plane like yours.  Some even did that with the knowledge of what they were buying.  Others, were equally not as fortunate.

A pre-purchase inspection is a buyer's protection. The buyer has to set this up properly to be protected.  There is no standard for this.

If somebody did this work for you, and you paid them for doing this work, you may want to ask them how they missed these things that you have identified.

A brief PPI is a few hundred dollars. An extensive PPI is a few thousand dollars.

Learn to use the search function around here.  It can take some practice.  But, it can reveal some real solutions to the things you are about to embark on...

My M20C had the same challenge with flaps.  Easy to fix properly, not terribly expensive either.  If you like to work on mechanical systems get to know a mechanic that can oversee the work you are doing. You are about to get to know a fabulous machine. When you know every nut and bolt that keeps her together you will really appreciate what she can deliver...

She nearly flies as fast as a new Ovation... at one tenth the acquisition cost. :)

The fun lies ahead...

Enough about the water that has gone under the bridge...  Tell us about your experience and your expectations.

Best regards,

-a-

PS.. If you don't have shoulder belts for the front seaters... just ask.

 

 

Edited by carusoam
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Wow!  That was a lot of info quickly.  Glad this is an active forum. MY instructor is an A&P, IA so he's allowing me to do a lot of the work with his approval.  I'm still at the airport, just pulled manifold pressure guage and flap pump.  The flap pump was just redone by Lasar and is leaking from the piston rod, will call Lasar in the morning.  The manifold pressure guage line was not clogged, I suspect the adjustment screw on the back is clogged as the guage responds to vaccuum and pressure sloooooowly.  A couple weeks ago I fixed the transponder it was a shorted coax at the antenna (Skywagons paid for the diagnosis and repair).  The audio panel had dirty relay contacts (it is original) I polished the contacts with 1000 grit, works good now.  I disabled the autopilot/positive control by pulling button out of yoke and put in ashtray for now.  As for the gear indicators I believe the limit switches are crusty, they don't pop out right away when pressed (master off battery disconnected at negative terminal).

Godfather, I'm sensing deferred maintenance.  

Marauder, I did have a pre-buy done by Placerville Aviation located at the same airport as Skywagons.

Yetti, the cigarette lighter has been removed and replaced with breaker for GPS (boo, how do I charge stuff!)  The starter solenoid is original and may be pulling too many amps on coil side or ignition switch may have loose contact.  Mags were redone with engine 105 hours ago or so.  

Gsxrpilot, thanks, I think it will work out, cheap crap so far.  The fuel tanks have O&N bladders four or five years old, engine is fresh from Tims aircraft engines with good compression, prop is in good shape, and the airframe is corrosion free.  

Bona, I now know more about this plane than that I do about most of my cars.  Crash course with the motivation of flying!

Carusoam, I was kidding about not making fun of the plane (look at my screen name!) I'm not going to worry about trying to ask the mechanic that did pre-buy, it's faster to fix the stuff my self.  I don't have shoulder belts, but have looked into it.  Looks like a project I have to tackle soon I can't eat too much yoke, I'm allergic.  MY instructor and I took it up just the once a few days ago and it was fun!  I have 40 hours in a Champ but wanted to travel as my mission so my buddy recommended a Mooney so here we are.  This thing is way easier to fly than the squirrelly champ!  You guessed it by the way, pre-buy was $400 so I'm not too sore, just like buying a used car, check the engine and tranny, all the other stuff is pretty cheap by comparison.  

Thanks everyone! I have to button up plane and go home.  Have A good night!

Edited by Grandmas Flying Couch
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I don't think solenoids work like that. They usually just fail.   Delt with hundreds of them in extreme conditions environment.   What starter do you have?

There are rebuild kits for the ignition switch.  That's where I would look.

You will note that the cigarette lighter from mooney is the standard steel one from the autoparts store.  With a greely hole punch you should be in business.

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A leaking piston rod should not cause your flaps to retract in flight. The piston merely pumps the fluid through a one way valve to the actuator. You've a check valve issue. Is your mechanic familiar with vintage Mooney systems?

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