yvesg Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 5 hours ago, Hank said: Wow! Ya'll have a Wiki page for how you cuss! As a side note, a good swearing job is also considered an art form in the South, we just don't have a web page about it [that I know of], and most all English speakers can understand the meaning [if you can understand our fine accent ]. When I searched for the right way to write tabarnak on Google, I fell on this page. I read it all and ended up rolling on the floor laughing. I swear, this page is all true. Yves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 22C here is that bad in Canadian Temperature language? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud116 Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 16 hours ago, Marauder said: Which Sea Foam? I love Deep Creep. Unbelievable stuff. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Sea Foam Motor Treatment. Yes, Deep Creep is another one of our products. Glad you like it. Btw, I appreciate your active participation on this site. You are one that keeps things alive here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yvesg Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Yetti said: 22C here is that bad in Canadian Temperature language? We do get that high in the summer and here and there in the spring and fall but rarely for stretches longer than a few weeks. Next time we have this will probably be in May 2017... this is in 5 months. Yves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 Darn joke was lost. That is the temperature when I was typing the post.... Sub tropical Texas has it's bright points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted December 18, 2016 Report Share Posted December 18, 2016 Laconia NH this morning... boy do we miss sweeping off wings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlunseth Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 I just carry a 100' extension cord. I have yet to find a facility where you can't plug in somehow. I generally call ahead and find out the best way to do it. I just plug the heater in when I shut down and leave it plugged in. Haven't had a problem. Snow is easy to take off with a broom or something. The biggest problem is removing frost, which can be persistent. I have a 1 gal. sprayer that I can fill with TKS fluid, but I can't say I have used it very often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlunseth Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 There are two or three things I do during operations that are different from warm weather. First, I have an oil cooler block installed and the cowl flaps adjusted to fully close (not trail, that's for summer). But also, I like to let the engine run for awhile to warm the engine compartment. I had an air/oil separator freeze up once, wasn't pretty, so I let the engine compartment get toasty. I also keep the cowl flaps closed during ground ops. You need all the heat in the engine and engine compartment you can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 Be sure to carry warm survival gear in case of an off field landing. Besides warm cloths - meaning a heavy jacket - dont think just what it would be like for 45 min but think what if two days....also carry a sleeping back. at least. Just in case you are forced off field in the winter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted December 19, 2016 Report Share Posted December 19, 2016 I usually pop my Red Dragon in the back- typically have access to some sort of 12 V power source (car / truck). Usually am making stops with family members nearby who can provide a source of propane for a pre-heat. I use that method if there are no heated hangars available. -Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 8 hours ago, Hyett6420 said: Great advice, may i add some more. Survival kit. Epirb personal attached to your person large tarpulin with cord and pegs to keep the wind off. Orange or bright yellow colour. WIND WILL KILL YOU QUICKER THAN ANYTHING ELSE. two or three emergency space blankets. Food and water for three days. 5,5,5= 5 mins no air, 5 days no water, 5 weeks no food. After each pf those fives, if you dont have the product you are DEAD. hunting knife, magnesium stick and tampons. Great for lighting fires with. Condoms and a large jumper (woolen thing you wear to keep warm). A condom carries gallons of water when inside a jumper. Pot to melt snow in, to turn into water. pencil flares for attracting attention. wire saw for cuttIng timber etc. small packs of herbs, they make raw meat taste nicer fishing tackle, ie lure hook and line. Good quality outdoor clothing. Remember the Norwegian phrase "no such thing as the wrong weather, just the wrong clothes". Snow boots are great with felt liners. The Canadians have a good brand called Sorel. a GOOD first aid kit. Go to A and E and ask the docs there what to put in it. Before leaving you will have watched survival videos, particularly how to light fires the scandanvian way. (In Sweeden every young person spends 1 year living outdoors in the woods as part of their military training. No food, no shelter, no nothing. They are only taught insurgency, ie make it so unpleasant for the occupier, that they wont want to come anyway. They are well trained in survival). You missed one. A really fat woman in the cabin. You could survive for weeks in the folds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggiepilot04 Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, Marauder said: You missed one. A really fat woman in the cabin. You could survive for weeks in the folds. I don't think I have the useful load to handle the kind of survival gear that you guys are recommending. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Just now, aggiepilot04 said: I don't think I have the useful load to handle the kind of survival gear that you guys are recommending. Just keep in mind fat is lighter than muscle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964-M20E Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 9 hours ago, Hyett6420 said: Great advice, may i add some more. Survival kit. * Condoms and a large jumper (woolen thing you wear to keep warm). A condom carries gallons of water when inside a jumper. I always was wondering how I could explain these to my wife. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigers2007 Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 I just arrived at my hangar and found this under my breather. Should I be worried about this much condensation? It's been plugged in for the last three days with the Reiff 200 watt HotStrip. I stuck my hand in and the cylinders are very warm. Engine temp gauge says it's 100F. OAT's have ranged from -8 to +34F. Even the cabin felt "warm". I've read pros and cons of leaving it plugged in regarding corrosion. Reiff says it's fine so long that you have the jug bands installed (to have equal heating across the entire motor). I plan on flying it at least twice a week. Right now the hold up is that the ice layer on the ramp in front of the hangar is intimidating me - I can't push this back in. I'm going to put on some ice cleats and see that will make it easier. Plus get chains for the PowerTow. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 Consider this to help with your own answer... there is some moisture in the engine related to exhaust by-products. The moisture doesn't vent out completely, and it has a tendency to condense inside the engine.... on parts that drip dry all of the oil that has been put there the last time the engine ran... i find some water drops on the oil dipstick cap. I open this up to vent some moisture (sometimes). You say, you fly multiple times per week? The engine parts are not dripping dry the oil coating in such a short amount of time. To understand the advice given by the heater manufacturer... multiple heaters on all engine parts would need to heat the engine uniformly. No cold spots to induce rain drops in that area. Test this theory with a IR thermometer. If the whole engine is the same temp. The advice is valid... the nice thing about winter weather, the relative moisture is very low. Moisture inside the engine will want to escape if allowed to vent out. PP advice. Not a technical expert... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 On 12/15/2016 at 10:53 PM, yvesg said: snow already on the ground... yeah... next week I pack all my stuff in the Mooney and will head for south Florida! Global warming... right... not over here! Ooooh - maybe I will come and ski Gatineau this weekend. We only have a few inches just south of you. Meanwhile - check out there is a nice new local flight - out of KOGS - just 1 mi south of the border, Allegiant Air has $150 rt fligths to KFLL - my wife just did it yesterday and it went off beautifully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 7 hours ago, carusoam said: the nice thing about winter weather, the relative moisture is very low. Moisture inside the engine will want to escape if allowed to vent out. Isn't that part the key? If the whole engine is much warmer than the rest of the external environment, eg using oil pan heater and cylinder heater system, where the engine might be 50-60 deg warmer than the external environment (say 50F when it is 0F outside), even if the engine is not identical temp across the engine, will it really still condense? My intuition says no, it will just be bone dry in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yvesg Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 29 minutes ago, aviatoreb said: Ooooh - maybe I will come and ski Gatineau this weekend. We only have a few inches just south of you. Meanwhile - check out there is a nice new local flight - out of KOGS - just 1 mi south of the border, Allegiant Air has $150 rt fligths to KFLL - my wife just did it yesterday and it went off beautifully. I checked them out of curiosity and with the flights and dates available it would cost $500 USD per person for return tickets. Still planning to fly down with the Mooney, will probably depart the 25th. Yves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 warm air holds more moisture than cold air... the problem with oil pan only heaters is that it warms the oil and the air while the cylinders are relatively cold. The cylinders only need to be dew point of the warm air inside the engine. If you have cylinder probe heat elements to go with the oil pan heater, then I wouldn't worry about leaving it plugged in continuously if you are flying every week.. If oil pan only heater, I would not leave it on continuously... IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 1 hour ago, aviatoreb said: Isn't that part the key? If the whole engine is much warmer than the rest of the external environment, eg using oil pan heater and cylinder heater system, where the engine might be 50-60 deg warmer than the external environment (say 50F when it is 0F outside), even if the engine is not identical temp across the engine, will it really still condense? My intuition says no, it will just be bone dry in there. Key things for this issue... 1) Let the moisture from combustion escape. Moisture is a key to corrosion. No moisture = no corrosion (generally) 2) If it doesn't escape, the warmed environment aids the corrosion process. Warmer temps = faster rate of oxidation (generally) 3) Corrosion time frame is typically measured in weeks. Flying weekly = oil coated cam and parts = no corrosion (generally) 4) the Outside low RH is beneficial, but if the moisture doesn't vent out very well the RH inside the engine will not be the same as outside. 5) there are two vents, the one that relieves the pressure inside the case, and the oil dip stick. 6) uniform 100°F engine temperature is a strong drying force for anything open to allow moisture to leave. Uniform heating keeps cool spots from concentrating moisture that wants to condense. 7) a Typical storage corrosion concern is RH attacking cylinder walls that are open to the environment. This is not the concern for this winter storage situation. 8) If there is a concern regarding too much time being warm and moist. Use a cell switch type device to start heating before use. Summary... let the moisture of combustion escape. Heat the engine uniformly. Fly often! PP thoughts only. Not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 1 hour ago, yvesg said: I checked them out of curiosity and with the flights and dates available it would cost $500 USD per person for return tickets. Still planning to fly down with the Mooney, will probably depart the 25th. Yves Wow?!! Really? It was like $150 last week rt for my wife from last Wed return this Wed. Yeah - for sure I would use the Mooney if I am also going. Liz said there were a lot of Canadians on the flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 34 minutes ago, carusoam said: Key things for this issue... 1) Let the moisture from combustion escape. Moisture is a key to corrosion. No moisture = no corrosion (generally) 2) If it doesn't escape, the warmed environment aids the corrosion process. Warmer temps = faster rate of oxidation (generally) 3) Corrosion time frame is typically measured in weeks. Flying weekly = oil coated cam and parts = no corrosion (generally) 4) the Outside low RH is beneficial, but if the moisture doesn't vent out very well the RH inside the engine will not be the same as outside. 5) there are two vents, the one that relieves the pressure inside the case, and the oil dip stick. 6) uniform 100°F engine temperature is a strong drying force for anything open to allow moisture to leave. Uniform heating keeps cool spots from concentrating moisture that wants to condense. 7) a Typical storage corrosion concern is RH attacking cylinder walls that are open to the environment. This is not the concern for this winter storage situation. 8) If there is a concern regarding too much time being warm and moist. Use a cell switch type device to start heating before use. Summary... let the moisture of combustion escape. Heat the engine uniformly. Fly often! PP thoughts only. Not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Right - I always figured that cracking the oil case at the dipstick, and then heating allows the dry heat to flow up and through and sure enough a water drippy dipstick when I land is bone dry within a few hours. OTOH, quite right about cold and slowing chemical processes. Another approach I suppose would be to cool the Mooney to -100F for storage. I doubt there is much corrosion at that temp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigers2007 Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 I didn't even think about turning on the Insight G1 to read the CHT's. I'll do that when I stop by today. I'll bring my infrared thermometer too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964-M20E Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 9 hours ago, carusoam said: Consider this to help with your own answer... there is some moisture in the engine related to exhaust by-products. The moisture doesn't vent out completely, and it has a tendency to condense inside the engine.... on parts that drip dry all of the oil that has been put there the last time the engine ran... i find some water drops on the oil dipstick cap. I open this up to vent some moisture (sometimes). You say, you fly multiple times per week? The engine parts are not dripping dry the oil coating in such a short amount of time. To understand the advice given by the heater manufacturer... multiple heaters on all engine parts would need to heat the engine uniformly. No cold spots to induce rain drops in that area. Test this theory with a IR thermometer. If the whole engine is the same temp. The advice is valid... the nice thing about winter weather, the relative moisture is very low. Moisture inside the engine will want to escape if allowed to vent out. PP advice. Not a technical expert... Best regards, -a- I have wondered why our planes do not have PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) valves on them? This would evacuate un-burnt gasoline vapors, oil vapors, moisture and other nasty components from the crankcase and reintroduce them to the engine to be burned. Or even Jose's liquid waste venturi hooked up to the crankcase breather hose again to evacuate these items out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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