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Cheaper generator for electric preheater? $158 from Home Depot; will this work?


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That’s not an inverter generator and its 25% heavier. Not bad though for a camper. I picked up a dual-fuel 4000 watt  for my camper two months ago for $275 shipped to my door. 

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  • 9 months later...
Finally breaking out my generator after sitting in the box for 2 years. Has anyone done a cold start on these yet. Trying to figure out if I need to preheat the preheater power source. 


Nah, just make sure it has fresh oil and gas in it and then let her rip. I pull mine out every 3 or 4 weeks and run it if I am not using it for a bit. The unit still starts on the first or second pull.


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Mine starts fine. I put 5w-30 synthetic in it. I ended up jumping on the Sams Club 2300 watt inverter generator deal. It’s quite heavier than my 800/1000 Sportsman but can handle the block and cabin preheaters. 

One note though, I have had a couple incidents where the Sportsman just couldn’t handle my Engine heater yet mathematically it is should be less than 800 sustained watts. 

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If using car gasoline, Expect the need for pre-heating the generator to be less than using 100LL in it... the car gas doesn’t resist vaporizing as much as 100LL does...

In the event you have a metal intake tube to the cylinder, after the carburetor... that is the part you want to heat... it won’t be nice to it, but the objective is to get it started...

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best rgerads,

-a-

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On 2/26/2019 at 4:31 AM, tigers2007 said:

Just bought one. Should be waiting in Vegas for me on the 8th. It will be three and a half weeks since I’ve seen her. She’ll need some heat. 

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I have a dumb question about the preheater. ...  Would It be prudent to leave it plugged in during the winter to keep everything warm and thus drive the moisture out of the engine?  Maybe even have a sitch that goes on for 10 off for 10 or something like that so that it isnt full hot but jsut warm.

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26 minutes ago, Austintatious said:

I have a dumb question about the preheater. ...  Would It be prudent to leave it plugged in during the winter to keep everything warm and thus drive the moisture out of the engine?  Maybe even have a sitch that goes on for 10 off for 10 or something like that so that it isnt full hot but jsut warm.

Not at all a dumb question, or one with a simple answer. This issue has been much debated here and elsewhere. No definitive answer. Best takeaways I can give:

-Probably not a good idea for an oil sump alone heater - may produce temp gradients that promote condensation on the top of the engine

-A legit consideration for a strong heater for both cylinders and oil sump, which heats the engine more uniformly (e.g. Reiff turbo XP).  As long as the whole engine stays above the dew point temp all the time, it should be helpful from a condensation moisture perspective.

-One might worry that the hotter engine temp in storage might also harm parts like cam and tappets by causing protective oil to be less viscous and run off.  

FWIW, I decided to leave it plugged in all winter this year but try hard to get it in the air once every two weeks at least, have only failed once so far.  

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On 12/11/2016 at 9:42 AM, tigers2007 said:

I just noticed via Slickdeals.net that Home Depot has a Chinese "digital inverter" generator that puts out 800 watts continuously (1000 surge) for $158. It weights 19lbs.  Reiff draws 200 for the pan plus 50 or 100 per cylinder. Throw in the  25w oil cooler heater and its below the 800 watt threshold. Does anyone here carry one of these around with them? I would only use this when I'm away from home.

I wonder if I'm better off buying a 100' Flexilla brand extension cord for almost the same price.

Anyone have a pirep on operation on 100LL?

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On 12/11/2016 at 9:42 AM, tigers2007 said:

I just noticed via Slickdeals.net that Home Depot has a Chinese "digital inverter" generator that puts out 800 watts continuously (1000 surge) for $158. It weights 19lbs.  Reiff draws 200 for the pan plus 50 or 100 per cylinder. Throw in the  25w oil cooler heater and its below the 800 watt threshold. Does anyone here carry one of these around with them? I would only use this when I'm away from home.

I wonder if I'm better off buying a 100' Flexilla brand extension cord for almost the same price.

Anyone have a pirep on operation on 100LL?  By the way, speaking of preheating, back in the day guys rigged up beeper powered preheater switches they would call before heading to the airport.  What's the going solution like that these days?

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If you search the forum there are a few good threads on GSM controlled power switches. ATT and T mobile have ended 2G and are about to sunset 3G ASAP. Reliable 4G/LTE switches are $$$$ and difficult to find. Some folks here have built their own on the cheap. If you have WiFi at your hangar then a simple WiFi switch can be acquired very cheaply.

The monthly price of data services have dropped immensely. I use AT&T Mobile Data for my household internet using a LTE Router and their $30/mo Unlimited plan at 25 Mbps (LTE SIM thinks it’s in a tablet...)

If you have a shared data plan and can add on a SIM for cheap, then that might be easier - just get a mobile hotspot and leave it in your hangar. Or maybe find a super cheap pay as you go data plan as sending a command to a wifi switch shouldn’t take much data bits at all. e96e91101f60246f9c69de76f65718a3.jpg


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Anyone have a pirep on operation on 100LL?  By the way, speaking of preheating, back in the day guys rigged up beeper powered preheater switches they would call before heading to the airport.  What's the going solution like that these days?


I’m still using a GSM remote switch that runs on T-Mobile’s “Pay as you go” plan ($3/mth).

07fb81003611e78e1dc764e83c546d9e.jpg

I use a relay switch to control the power for a small ceramic heater. I don’t trust these cheap GSM switches to carry full amperage through them.

This is the relay I use

e37a9dca1fb8e75c69665798c0653a16.jpg

I took an old power supply from a cell phone and ran the +/- leads to the green connector on the relay. I plug the power supply into one of the GSM switch ports and trigger it that way.

The GSM switch uses a simple text message string to activate it. You can also use a white list to restrict phone numbers that can call it.

DO NOT use the SwitchBox one sold out there. Unless they have fixed the way they carry power, they added extra solder on the traces in an attempt to carry more juice than the box is designed for. I have pictures of this and assurances from EEs that I work with that this is a dangerous practice.


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Maurader is that 3G or 4G? I just found the Amazon ad for it and it doesn’t mention it. ATT has already began shutting down 3G service in N. Wisconsin among other areas.


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Maurader is that 3G or 4G? I just found the Amazon ad for it and it doesn’t mention it. ATT has already began shutting down 3G service in N. Wisconsin among other areas.


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It’s actually GSM (2G I think). T-Mobile is still supporting the platform. Supposedly until at least until 2020.


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4 hours ago, rogerl said:

Quote from the IO550 Permold M&O manual Publication M-16 CHANGE 1 ©2015 CONTINENTAL MOTORS, INC. FEB 2015:

7-4.1.1.2. Engine Preheat with an Engine-Mounted Preheater

"Do not leave an engine-mounted pre-heater system on for more than  24  hours  prior  to flight.  Continuous operation  of  engine-mounted  preheater systems  may  result  in  aggressive  internal engine corrosion."

that is interesting... heat tends to drive moisture out of an area.... this is how gun safe dehumidifiers work.  Also why you house is so dry during winter time.

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When I had a hangar with free electricity I left mine plugged in with a sleeping bag draped over the entire cowling. The entire engine compartment was toasty and dry. Its extremely dry where I'm at in the Winter. Post-flight I leave the dipstick unscrewed and offset to let the steam exit.

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12 hours ago, Marauder said:


It’s actually GSM (2G I think). T-Mobile is still supporting the platform. Supposedly until at least until 2020.
 

 

I'm a bit surprised there's still any GSM stuff out there, but this sort of thing is probably why, if there are a lot of controls out there using it.

Also, this is still my fave cheapie generator.   HF sidewalk sale for $88, and even though it's a two-stroke it's actually very quiet.  I've never run a heater with it, but seems to do fine with lots of tool, even continuous-use stuff like big weed-whackers, etc.

https://www.harborfreight.com/900-max-starting700-running-watts-2-hp-63cc-2-cycle-gas-generator-epacarb-63025.html

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4 hours ago, Austintatious said:

that is interesting... heat tends to drive moisture out of an area.... this is how gun safe dehumidifiers work.  Also why you house is so dry during winter time.

Austin,

Your thermodynamic reasoning isn’t tight enough....

You are making a critical assumption on 25amu challenge...  (OH cost for a rusted cam/lifter)

Find the thread around here that has data collected of rh inside the engine... An MSer collected data for his heater and his plane in his environment...

No two of these is the same...

Rust rate increases a lot with each 10°C of temperature... roughly doubles.

The engine block is a giant piece of heat dissipating metal... connected to an aluminum prop that chills the crank...

Hot in one location and pretty cold in others...

When the moisture isn’t driven out completely... the oxidation rate is being driven up...

Often people dry the air that is pumped into the engine...  because it is more reliable... search for ‘dehydrators’

Cold and dry is good...

Moist is not very good...

Warm and moist would be terrible...

Keep in mind acids in the oil operate in a similar fashion... the acids are a byproduct of combustion... heated oil will break down at a faster rate then cold oil...

It is better to follow somebody else’s proven experience than to take a guess because it seems like a good idea...

Take a look inside your oil dipstick cap... you can see water droplets that condense after the engine cools off...

Water is a big byproduct of combustion... and the engine case is quite a collector of this moisture...

Electric engine heaters focus on two things... Mostly heating the oil in the pan, sometimes another heater on the top of the case, and for an additional cost... some heat bands on the cylinders... the intention is to raise the oil to a warm 40 plus degrees... to aid in starting... Often the oil can get into the 80s.... or higher...

Uniformly heating the engine requires a lot of heat, plenty of insulation, and insulating the metal prop to keep moisture from condensing on the crank shaft then dripping back into the oil pan...

PP thoughts only, not a combustion engineer...

Best regards,

-a-

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Great question...

The answer to some simple questions can be incredibly complex, and vary depending on the area of the world you are in...

The more you can observe other Mooney pilots... the more you can pick up some of the quirky things that have been proven to work...

Or learn things like...

  • Don’t leave the tow bar in the nose wheel...
  • leave the ignition key on the glare shield...
  • always walk around the plane observing, one more time before getting in the plane...
  • Flows and Checklists are used by the most experienced Mooney pilots...
  • GUMPS, GUMPS, GUMPS....   :)

These are some of things that ordinary people have a tendency to do... until they realize the brain ordinarily makes errors and these particular errors can be really costly...

PP thoughts, keep asking questions... :)

Best regards,

-a-

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11 hours ago, Austintatious said:

that is interesting... heat tends to drive moisture out of an area.... this is how gun safe dehumidifiers work.  Also why you house is so dry during winter time.

What you want to avoid is a combination of high temperature and moisture.   Cold hangar air will dry out when heated, so all winter heat should be fine unless you get a warm wet day in the hangar.  That said, I'm not leaving my heater on.

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