LANCECASPER Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, Godfather said: Garmin sent out an email about a week ago answering some questions. Basically they said that because the G5 (AI and HSI) is not TSO certified there would be huge headwinds from the FAA for even a heading bug output. A full AP system is 1-2 years out minimum (my guess). This was the e-mail that went out to a lot of people from Michael.Kussatz@garmin.com: Thank you for all the questions and I will address the whole group on a few things: 1. When will the G5 work with autopilots? The G5 providing attitude information to the autopilot might never happen. The G5 HSI driving the heading bug? That might happen, but it’s still a fight. Here’s the FAA logic. Autopilots systems are SUPER hard to certify and tying anything into an autopilot system gets pulled into that certification mess. The G5 is STC’d, but it doesn’t have a TSO so, basically, it didn’t go through as much testing as autopilot systems go through. The FAA doesn’t like that so they’re cautious on what they’ll allow. Long story long, we’re trying. No promises yet. 2. G5 as a standby to G500, G1000, Aspen. This is a weird one. Currently, the certification for a stand-alone attitude, like the G5 is lower than the certification needed to produce a standby instrument. The FAA’s goal was to address LOC by making it easier to install more reliable attitude indicators. From the FAA’s eyes, changing the certification standard on standby’s takes work and that work won’t lower the LOC accidents so they’re not going to address it. Doesn’t make a huge amount of sense, but I see their point. Followup information.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 27, 2017 Report Share Posted May 27, 2017 In the modern world, they still fly every test. This could be done completely on the ground using simulation. Followed with the final actual flight testing that would nearly be guaranteed to pass. Big strides in minimizing actual costs this way... Is this still considered thinking outside the box? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDPetersen Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 Any recent install prices? Just had a $3595 quote for a basic (AI only). I had hoped for better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 $2800 installed here in Texas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smccray Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 55 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said: $2800 installed here in Texas. Where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 For those interested steinair now has a flush mount that they're selling for ~$50. I'm 99% sure it's too wide for my early J panel http://www.steinair.com/product/garmin-g5-flush-mount-bracket/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hramirez8 Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 On 12/10/2016 at 10:11 PM, FlyboyKC said: Yes = cost of the unit plus the labor to put it into a certified airplane and sign off the logbook. Paid $2500 of my hard earned cash. On 12/10/2016 at 10:11 PM, FlyboyKC said: Yes = cost of the unit plus the labor to put it into a certified airplane and sign off the logbook. Paid $2500 of my hard earned cash. Where did you do this install if I may ask? I want to do same install as Stand By AI. Then i can do away with my vacuum pump and all. I already have a G500... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 12 hours ago, hramirez8 said: Where did you do this install if I may ask? I want to do same install as Stand By AI. Then i can do away with my vacuum pump and all. I already have a G500... That is not possible. The G5 is not approved for that role. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 Unless there's a friendly FSDO who will do a field approval a la Paul's K. Maybe you should ask him where he got his work done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 I'd like to see that. I think the G500 and G5 STC's language prohibits it. But I don't own either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kortopates Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 I'd like to see that. I think the G500 and G5 STC's language prohibits it. But I don't own either It does Byron (prohibit it), I went with the L3 ESI-500 for my G500 as did Don on his G500 and Chris on his dual Aspen. This is specifically what the ESI-500 was designed for. However, as stated above some FDDO's are allowing installers to ignore that the G5 has not been approved for EFIS backup and provided a field approval. The other Paul S - gxrspilot - above was the one that got field approval for the G5 with Aspen. The $ savings just isn't worth the added risk to me, even with dual GTN GPS installation. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 It does Byron (prohibit it), I went with the L3 ESI-500 for my G500 as did Don on his G500 and Chris on his dual Aspen. This is specifically what the ESI-500 was designed for. However, as stated above some FDDO's are allowing installers to ignore that the G5 has not been approved for EFIS backup and provided a field approval. The other Paul S - gxrspilot - above was the one that got field approval for the G5 with Aspen. The $ savings just isn't worth the added risk to me, even with dual GTN GPS installation. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk And to boot, the ESI-500 has features including Nav capabilities, SVT and a really beautiful display. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hramirez8 Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 That is not possible. The G5 is not approved for that role. Yeah, I have a friendly avionics shop willing to do it, but i'd rather go legal and get alternative such as the ESI-500 or Sandia 340 Quattro. The latter is legal for stand by attitude, altitude, airspeed and vsi... Basically can do away with all the steam gauges. I would need to get a field approval for the J I think, working on that. Any inputs welcome!Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hramirez8 Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 It does Byron (prohibit it), I went with the L3 ESI-500 for my G500 as did Don on his G500 and Chris on his dual Aspen. This is specifically what the ESI-500 was designed for. However, as stated above some FDDO's are allowing installers to ignore that the G5 has not been approved for EFIS backup and provided a field approval. The other Paul S - gxrspilot - above was the one that got field approval for the G5 with Aspen. The $ savings just isn't worth the added risk to me, even with dual GTN GPS installation. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Downside to the ESI-500 is that it is only std by for Attitude. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 Downside to the ESI-500 is that it is only std by for Attitude. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk I looked at both the ESI-500 and Sandra Quattro. The ESI-500 did not require a field approval to act as a backup to my Aspens, the Sandia would have. The G-5 not approved as a backup (Trek Lawler from Garmin was on this site and told us this). That said it appears some FSDOs are approving it as a backup. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfather Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Marauder said: I looked at both the ESI-500 and Sandra Quattro. The ESI-500 did not require a field approval to act as a backup to my Aspens, the Sandia would have. The G-5 not approved as a backup (Trek Lawler from Garmin was on this site and told us this). That said it appears some FSDOs are approving it as a backup. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro I'm curious if the FSDO is allowing the G5 to be installed for that purpose if they would allow the experimental version of the G5 too? That would give hsi/nav cdi all in one unit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionflt Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Godfather said: I'm curious if the FSDO is allowing the G5 to be installed for that purpose if they would allow the experimental version of the G5 too? That would give hsi/nav cdi all in one unit. A friend of mine got approval to have the experimental version installed in his baron as a standby instrument. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 A friend of mine got approval to have the experimental version installed in his baron as a standby instrument. Brian Was it the Allentown FSDO? I doubt Philly would. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionflt Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 It was installed at donigal springs, we triple checked that they knew what it was going in. they had no issues with it being a secondary instrument, really is the way it should be! Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) Is this installed as a required standby or as a third attitude? Legally speaking these aren't the same thing. An approved standby must be installed. A T/C fulfills this requirement. You can install anything beyond that fairly easily now. Is this the situation? Edited June 18, 2017 by jetdriven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 1 hour ago, orionflt said: It was installed at donigal springs, we triple checked that they knew what it was going in. they had no issues with it being a secondary instrument, really is the way it should be! Brian 23 minutes ago, jetdriven said: Is this installed as a required standby or as a third attitude? Legally speaking these aren't the same thing. An approved standby must be installed. A T/C fulfills this requirement. You can install anything beyond that fairly easily now. Is this the situation? Byron -- the shop at Donegal Springs, PA is the shop that did my install and I am certain they wouldn't have installed it unless it met the regs. I spent a lot of time with them on the stand-by AI situation since I was removing my vacuum system. My guess is this is a purely extra AI in the panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 Looks like your plane has the T/c which fulfills the legal backup requirement. Anything else beyond that is great. Is this the case with Orionflt as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIm20c Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 5 hours ago, jetdriven said: Is this installed as a required standby or as a third attitude? Legally speaking these aren't the same thing. An approved standby must be installed. A T/C fulfills this requirement. You can install anything beyond that fairly easily now. Is this the situation? I have an Aspen with an air driven backup ai. It sounds like adding a experimental G5 to the far right panel (3rd ai) should not be an issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orionflt Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 9 hours ago, Marauder said: Byron -- the shop at Donegal Springs, PA is the shop that did my install and I am certain they wouldn't have installed it unless it met the regs. I spent a lot of time with them on the stand-by AI situation since I was removing my vacuum system. My guess is this is a purely extra AI in the panel. in the case of the baron, no mandatory standby was required so the experimental version was allowed giving more function. I wonder with the new dual G5 stc if you would meet the requirements to be used as a standby. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 Rumor is there is a baron flying around with a Dynon Skyview installed and they're gonna announce approval at OSH17. Now that's a breakthrough. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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