How much can your Mooney carry with full fuel?

[gsengle]

Jerry legally, I've rapped with a couple of Mooney insiders years ago and was told the long bodies could easily carry 1.5 times the noted useful loads published, I'm NOT recommending anyone to fly over gross just mentioning a conversation, if true why isn't our gross weights higher?

Two reasons.

1) Landing gear doesn't pass certification at higher weights. It's a weak link. Hard landing overweight you can do damage or worse.

2) wing design is supposedly maxed out. At high weights, the wing exceeds the stall speed certification requirements for a single.

But yes I love that I still can climb at 1000fpm at max gross in the R

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[gsengle]

Okay, so I will attempt to ask a better question:
What Mooney can I purchase and fly that can take me 600 nm or more direct and bring 510 lbs of stuff?
 

What's your hypothetical budget? I believe many Mooneys will do that trip.

My Ovation (you've seen pics), and we are the same age and weight....

600 nm -> 3 1/2 hours round numbers -> ~60 gallons -> 360 lbs, leaves 600lbs useful load.

A Mooney is the perfect cross country machine for two people to go long distances relatively fast but economically.


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[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, FloridaPilot said:

What Mooney can I purchase and fly that can take me 600 nm or more direct and bring 510 lbs of stuff?

Easy... all of them.  And it will cost less in fuel to do it than in any other certificated single.

If that is the criteria, any Mooney from an M20B, C, E all the way to the Ovation and Acclaims will meet that requirement.

BTW - I outweigh you by 10 lbs and am very comfortable in my K. And was comfortable in the C before that. We usually travel with two people, (wife and I), our large dog, and a little luggage. We're usually between 500 and 550 lbs + fuel. It works in my K and worked in the C before that. 

You won't find a better two person traveling machine for the money, than a Mooney.

[Andy95W]

I'm reading the OPs question as himself PLUS 510 pounds (740 pounds total) for 600 NM.  That gets pretty difficult in most Mooneys.

[201er]

26 minutes ago, N1395W said:

I'm reading the OPs question as himself PLUS 510 pounds (740 pounds total) for 600 NM.  That gets pretty difficult in most Mooneys.

I guess it all comes down to his definition of stuff...

[INA201]

Useful on my 1978J is 980. I can carry 40 gallons of fuel and 740lbs of people and stuff 400+ miles with easily an hour of flight time left.  

[Danb]

3 hours ago, rbridges said:

Isn't landing weight an issue at some point?  The 182 p and q models have an stc to raise take off weight by 150 lbs put you have to burn enough fuel to make up the difference before landing. 

Yep our landing weight is 3200 and takeoff is 3368

[FloridaPilot]

9 hours ago, Chupacabra said:

Hello FL Pilot and welcome to MS. A typical mission for my "F" model is Ocala FL to Dayton OH. Somewhere around 660 NM. Full fuel and 500 lbs straight through 4.5 hours. Leaves me around 17 gallons in the tanks.

Where are you based in FL?

 

 

I'm in Tampa/Saint Petersburg

[FloridaPilot]

6 hours ago, 201er said:

I guess it all comes down to his definition of stuff...

Guys,

510 Lbs of stuff includes my weight, my wife's weight and baggage and a little extra wiggle room.

[gsxrpilot]

7 minutes ago, FloridaPilot said:

Guys,

510 Lbs of stuff includes my weight, my wife's weight and baggage and a little extra wiggle room.

So when it comes to Mooney's, pick'em.  All of them will satisfy the mission and do it better (faster/cheaper) than any other certified single.

If you want to do the whole airplane thing as cheaply as possible, get an M20C.
A little more money to spend, get an M20E, even more funds available get an M20J.
If you are regularly in the mountains, western US, vacation home in Vail or Tahoe, get a M20K.
If the budget has room and speed is paramount, get an Ovation.
That and the mountains, you need an Acclaim.

[201er]

21 minutes ago, FloridaPilot said:

Guys,

510 Lbs of stuff includes my weight, my wife's weight and baggage and a little extra wiggle room.

Yeah, then what the guys said before about any Mooney being able to carry that stands. That leaves you with 450~500lbs in most Mooney's for fuel and that is more than many of them can carry. Try it in reverse.

Typical 950-1000lb useful load with full 64 gallons fuel leaves 566-616lbs of payload for your "stuff." Just don't tell your wife she is a part of the aggregate called "stuff." That leaves you a bit of extra so you're not always running at gross or if you find a model that has less load, you're still under gross. If you look at something with over 64 gallons capacity, just know that you are maxed out at 75-85 gallons of fuel which is still quite plenty.

[DVA]

6 hours ago, Danb said:

Yep our landing weight is 3200 and takeoff is 3368

DanB is right, to add for clarity - the landing weight is not a legal limitation as take off (or maximum) weight is. You can legally land all day long at 3368 if you want.

The POH describes a technique to use if you must land over 3200 lbs. A smooth landing at gross weight is far less impactful than a hard landing at any just about weight. The rub is what does “hard” mean and how can you tell if what just happened was “hard”?  It’s up to us, unfortunately.

The good news is that our planes are build and tested to a set of structural limits and calculated engineering failure points, then a generous factor is applied to add buffer room so we humans can make all kinds of mistakes and not break anything. This is not meant to imply that we should go over any FAA prescribed  limitation by even a pound, as that would be enough to cause legal problems - but not necessarily structure problems.

The POH states:

Note, this is a “procedure” and it is allowed. (I do it a lot, smoothly (Don Kaye would be proud))

However, should you feel as if you exceeded the guidance above, the POH sez:

Note that the POH guidance is “should” not shall.

So you take a peek at Section 32 of the Maintenance Manual which refers to the inspection of the gear system and you see:

“Operation Inspection” (32-30-01) is quite extensive.  

I can virtually guarantee that we all have landed a few times well past what “hard” or “abnormal” means (regardless of weight) as far as a conservative engineer would define. That said, anytime, regardless of weight where you have a landing that makes you wonder if you could have bent something, you should have the airplane checked.

Who wants to define “hard”?  Have at it! lol

DVA

 

[Danb]

Gosh Dave I used to need an MSC at the end of each runway on the east coast based on the above. Not really. Why is it e.g.today I landed with a 69 degree cross wind 22-g32 with a near perfect landing while on a perfect day it seems like work? 

[DVA]

11 minutes ago, Danb said:

Gosh Dave I used to need an MSC at the end of each runway on the east coast based on the above. Not really. Why is it e.g.today I landed with a 69 degree cross wind 22-g32 with a near perfect landing while on a perfect day it seems like work? 

The airplane has sensors that look at the ground proximity and then feed that data to a certified gonculator. The fortistat on the end of the kanibblie pin senses when beads of sweat appear on the pilot’s brow. Detecting such, the kanorton device assists in the landing; hence your perfect cross wind experience. When there is a lack of brow sweat, as when your cocky ass is sure of a greaser, the entire aerodynamic envelope of the aircraft momentarily takes the shape of a dishwasher just as you approach ground effect. It happens so fast you can’t see it, but you damn-well know it happened.

Want the service manual reference page?

[rbridges]

2 hours ago, FloridaPilot said:

Guys,

510 Lbs of stuff includes my weight, my wife's weight and baggage and a little extra wiggle room.

As stated, any mooney will meet your needs. BUT some models offer turbos if you need them. I have a C model which is perfect for me and my wife. Our kids are older so the back seats don't get used much. 

[FloridaPilot]

Thanks guys for the responses!

So where do I go if I would like to go up in a Mooney? Is there a school or something where I can go up with an instructor where I can legally pay?

[201er]

1 minute ago, FloridaPilot said:

Thanks guys for the responses!

So where do I go if I would like to go up in a Mooney? Is there a school or something where I can go up with an instructor where I can legally pay?

Generally speaking you have to buy one to try.

[gsxrpilot]

Actually probably anyone in Florida with a Mooney would be happy to give you a ride in one. If you're ever in Texas, I'd be happy to give you a ride in mine.

[rbridges]

24 minutes ago, FloridaPilot said:

Thanks guys for the responses!

So where do I go if I would like to go up in a Mooney? Is there a school or something where I can go up with an instructor where I can legally pay?

Most mooney guys love to show their planes. Someone in the area would probably be glad to take you up. Heck, let me know if you're ever traveling up I75 in Georgia. 

 

Edit-- gsxrpilot types faster than me. 

[FloridaPilot]

22 minutes ago, rbridges said:

Most mooney guys love to show their planes. Someone in the area would probably be glad to take you up. Heck, let me know if you're ever traveling up I75 in Georgia. 

 

Edit-- gsxrpilot types faster than me. 

Also, thank you for helping out all of my endless questions over at pilotsofamerica.com  I hope I can return the favor someday!

[FloridaPilot]

27 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Actually probably anyone in Florida with a Mooney would be happy to give you a ride in one. If you're ever in Texas, I'd be happy to give you a ride in mine.

Thank you! for the offer!

[FloridaPilot]

46 minutes ago, 201er said:

Generally speaking you have to buy one to try.

No, I don't want to waste any ones time if I don't like it. I rather try it first then I will buy. I don't have any retract time so it's going to take a while.

[gsxrpilot]

I've given three interested pilots, rides in my Mooney.  All three of them now are Mooney owners. Not a bad average 

[XXX]

15 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I've given three interested pilots, rides in my Mooney.  All three of them now are Mooney owners. Not a bad average 

Hey Paul , give me six numbers between 1 & 49 please. 

[XXX]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

Actually probably anyone in Florida with a Mooney would be happy to give you a ride in one. If you're ever in Texas, I'd be happy to give you a ride in mine.

Yep, I'll be happy to help you get hooked on the Mooney drug FL Pilot. I'm in Ocala. What's your schedule like?