Mooneymite Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 The cost of our addiction is the "third rail". It must be ignored despite idle curiosity. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Just now, Mooneymite said: The cost of our addiction is the "third rail". It must be ignored despite idle curiosity. That's why I only discuss direct operational costs for a particular flight or per hour. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER try to add up the total cost per hour, per trip or per year!!!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 29 minutes ago, INA201 said: Kidding aside there is an unquantifiable joy associated with a trip by air even though it can and does cost a large amount of AMUs to participate. Exactly - the answer to this problem of flying is in the field of psychology, not the field of math. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 5 hours ago, N803RM said: On short trips, the plane is not any faster, especially when you factor in the time to get to the airport, preflight and go. It takes me an hour to drive, preflight and get the wheels up. Yesterday flew to Shafter CA for a new prop, approximately 1 hour each way, plus drive time. If I drove it would be about 2 hours. But if you are going to live life by this, you drive all the time. I flew for many reasons, enjoyment, currency, what else is there? Now on longer trips, The grandkids are in Oklahoma, we are in Central California. 28 hrs driving 2 nights and 95 gallons of gas, by Mooney, 9 1/2 hrs. flying, 1 long day and 95 gallons of gas. No hotel bill. I fly every chance I can to make this trip, but have driven it many times. Ron When I commuted to Tucson, the Mooney got me there 15 min faster. I got bored of flying, so I would fly three days a week and drive two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 I sat down early Sunday morning building a spreadsheet based on several places I have driven and flown to. Being a new Mooney owner I had to recalculate times/fuel for the flying portion, the first scenario was to Mustang Island, just east of Corpus Christi Tx in the Gulf of Mexico, great place due to the many restaurants to pick from, T65 > KRAS (109 mm). The first thing I noticed is how much faster it was in the Mooney vs the C-172 we use to take. Wing-X showed it to be 41 minutes, wow only 41 minutes, so we flew over for lunch... In my excitement I forgot to save my work when I shut down the computer. Isn't Math fun? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameIsNobody Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Owning and operating a Mooney is like having a summer home that you only enjoy "on occasion". It makes sense ONLY if you have a lot of money or you have partners/co-owners that make the equation make sense. What was the "value" on flying to SW Wisconsin on a beautiful November day to see my wife's parents and my son with his second Buck hanging from a tree outside a cabin at their farm? The value of a Jimmy John's Sub with your son and a visit from your wife and aunt that were just "out for a walk"? Sharing hunting stories of years gone by and plans for the future with someone that you love? Wouldn't of happened without the magic carpet. Life is to be experienced. I do NOT look at the numbers. I do "The Math" on life experiences. QUALITY time with those I love and I am way in the black on the math... Now Bird hunting and fishing...Those guys and gals are kooky (says the pot to the black kettle) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Just now, MyNameIsNobody said: Owning and operating a Mooney is like having a summer home that you only enjoy "on occasion". It makes sense ONLY if you have a lot of money or you have partners/co-owners that make the equation make sense. What was the "value" on flying to SW Wisconsin on a beautiful November day to see my wife's parents and my son with his second Buck hanging from a tree outside a cabin at their farm? The value of a Jimmy John's Sub with your son and a visit from your wife and aunt that were just "out for a walk"? Sharing hunting stories of years gone by and plans for the future with someone that you love? Wouldn't of happened without the magic carpet. Life is to be experienced. I do NOT look at the numbers. I do "The Math" on life experiences. QUALITY time with those I love and I am way in the black on the math... Now Bird hunting and fishing...Those guys and gals are kooky (says the pot to the black kettle) I like the man from Iowa's thinking on this. Here is my personal experience. Both of my kids attended school at Florida State in Tallahassee. The drive from our house is 7 hours, by Mooney 2:15 on average. My wife and I were able to fly up there, have lunch and be home by 4:00pm, less time that it takes to drive one way. The plane really shined during holidays, such as Thanksgiving, when the drive time shot up to as much as 11 hours each way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 I gave up on numbers a long time ago.. but, I can say, where the n/a mooney really shines is on 300-600nm missions with all seats full. My rule of thumb is that if you can drive in 3 hours, then there is no real time difference, hence it would be just for the fun of it. For me, that is usually worth it.. haha This might be different for people who live in high traffic congestion areas.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) If you think OUR math stinks and you really want to feel frugal, go walk around a marina! Edited November 21, 2016 by Mooneymite 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Just now, Mooneymite said: If you think OUR math stinks and you really want to feel fugal, go walk around a marina! Excuse my naievty on the subject but I don't know a single thing about boats. Are they more expensive to own and if so, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) Just now, flyboy0681 said: Excuse my naievty on the subject but I don't know a single thing about boats. Are they more expensive to own and if so, why? Generally far less utility as far as getting from point A to point B. I've seen multi-million dollar yachts, meticulously cleaned and cared for that the harbour master told me hadn't left thier moorings in years. So, for comparison, we'd have to sit in our Mooneys with our neighbors and drink cocktails....all without starting the engine. That would save us a lot of money, no? Edited November 21, 2016 by Mooneymite 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Just now, Mooneymite said: Generally far less utility as far as getting from point A to point B. I've seen multi-million dollar yachts, meticulously cleaned and cared for that the harbour master told me hadn't left thier moorings in years. So, for comparison, we'd have to sit in our Mooneys with our neighbors and drink cocktails....all without starting the engine. That would save us a lot of money, no? The average American boat owner does not have a yacht. What about their costs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) Sailboats are cheaper to own than powerboats, but still a 26' sailboat is about 7-10K used, 300$ a month for a slip, and around 1-2K a year for upkeep. Quadruple that last number if you are a call me when ready person. Running costs are 1$ an hour. Power boats in that size have similar ownership costs, but costs to run are more like 40$ an hour. Cigarette "go-fast" boats, 100-200$ an hour. A 70' Bertram with twin diesels takes a big slip, expensive haulouts every year, expensive engines, troublesome refrigeration and A/C, and every time it leaves the pier thats about 1000$ in gas, figure 2+ gallons per MILE. Edited November 21, 2016 by jetdriven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 14 hours ago, INA201 said: In a plane trip the vacation begins during preflight. For a work trip the work starts when you land. In a car your vacation begins when you make it to your destination. For a work trip your work begins when you get into the car. So simple algebra tells us that V=vacation overall experience/work productivity, T=value of your time, S=stress level/relaxation quotient, and O=overall value all on a 1-10 scale. So let's say we are going on a nice 2 day trip to Megaland. Megaland is a 3 hour flight or 8 hour drive and will be awesome! Let's plug the numbers for both. Driving V3+T10+S4=O17 Flying V10+T10+S9.5=O29.5 Overall experience in this particular case is 12.5 units better than driving. Does anyone have the AMU conversion table handy? Kidding aside there is an unquantifiable joy associated with a trip by air even though it can and does cost a large amount of AMUs to participate. Since your formula is being applied to a family trip to megaland, there should be a variable for whining kids because in the car, they are whinging for hours, and int he plane they simply fall asleep. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, jetdriven said: Sailboats are cheaper to own than powerboats, but still a 26' sailboat is about 7-10K used, 300$ a month for a slip, and around 1-2K a year for upkeep. Quadruple that last number if you are a call me when ready person. Running costs are 1$ an hour. Power boats in that size have similar ownership costs, but costs to run are more like 40$ an hour. Cigarette "go-fast" boats, 100-200$ an hour. A 70' Bertram with twin diesels takes a big slip, expensive haulouts every year, expensive engines, troublesome refrigeration and A/C, and every time it leaves the pier thats about 1000$ in gas, figure 2+ gallons per MILE. before our mooney ownership, I had a 26' rinker cruiser with single small block and outdrive.. My annual cost was the same as the mooney, even when factoring fuel... Most of the cruisers around us with twins, so they had twice the operating costs... so, in fact, a vintage mooney has less costs than a decent twin 30' + cruiser.... and the boat is only useful for a few months of the year... at least that was my experience. marina fuel was about $4 last time we had a boat, and most of the boats have 100-200+ gallon tanks. that's why so many of them sit in the marina ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Just now, Browncbr1 said: before our mooney ownership, I had a 26' rinker cruiser with single small block and outdrive.. My annual cost was the same as the mooney, even when factoring fuel... Most of the cruisers around us with twins, so they had twice the operating costs... so, in fact, a vintage mooney has less costs than a decent twin 30' + cruiser.... and the boat is only useful for a few months of the year... at least that was my experience. marina fuel was about $4 last time we had a boat, and most of the boats have 100-200+ gallon tanks. that's why so many of them sit in the marina ... The replies here have been mostly on operating costs, but what kind of maintenance do they need, especially those that are in salt water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Just now, flyboy0681 said: The replies here have been mostly on operating costs, but what kind of maintenance do they need, especially those that are in salt water? I don't operate my Mooney in salt water . . . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browncbr1 Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Just now, flyboy0681 said: The replies here have been mostly on operating costs, but what kind of maintenance do they need, especially those that are in salt water? well, one of the big ones is winterization which ends up being about the cost of an annual if you do it properly and shrink wrap... there is also winter storage... This doesn't really apply to small boats... we are just talking about boats that are too big to trailer often.. but, many people, have a truck and trailer just to move the boat.. .otherwise, they wouldn't have them.. Saltwater just destroys everything... There are always anodes, bellows, and other things needing replacement. AC, water heater, toilet, outdrive issues always come up... There always seem to be electrical problems because so many connections become corroded... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 I may have the best Drive Tome / Mooney Time ratio. My usual calculation is driving is three times slower once you actually takeoff (not counting preflight, etc). I go from Pittsburgh to central VA as my milk run. Not many roads in WVa over the mountains so a giant detour is required and 221 SM trip is 6.1 hrs on google. By converse it's 175 nm straight line and 1.1 hrs. Let's add another hour on for driving to the airport, preflight, engine warm up, and buttoning up at destination, make the Mooney is 2.2 hrs. With a toddler and a dog, the 6 HR car ride easily becomes 8 hrs. So realistically the fly drive ratio is 3.6:1. Raw numbers wise the ratio is 5.1:1. In my wife's jeep, we will spend $30 in gas each way (12 gal x $2.50/gal). In the mooney I spend $65 in gas (about 13 gal x 4.75). I'll take flying any time I can. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
211º Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 If I drive 100 miles, my car "earns" about 55¢ per mile or about $55. If I fly, I burn about 8 gallons or about $32 for the same trip. Throw in an Uber ride and it balances out pretty darn closely with both time and cost. But flying is more fun and beats the heck out of traffic or interstate monotony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakeup Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 3 hours ago, jetdriven said: Sailboats are cheaper to own than powerboats, but still a 26' sailboat is about 7-10K used, 300$ a month for a slip, and around 1-2K a year for upkeep. Quadruple that last number if you are a call me when ready person. Running costs are 1$ an hour. Power boats in that size have similar ownership costs, but costs to run are more like 40$ an hour. Cigarette "go-fast" boats, 100-200$ an hour. A 70' Bertram with twin diesels takes a big slip, expensive haulouts every year, expensive engines, troublesome refrigeration and A/C, and every time it leaves the pier thats about 1000$ in gas, figure 2+ gallons per MILE. I only used my 26 foot boat that has a 454 engine maybe 5 hours last year because because I moved to Virginia a couple years ago. Lucky the boat is paid for and I have have a Lakehouse I rent out on VRBO/Airbnb with a boat dock so I don't have to pay for a slip. Slips can be very expensive and you still have to pay for your boat to get winterized in the Winter and normal maintenance costs. BOATs stand for Break Out Another Thousand. A smart man once told me to always Rent the three Fs. If it Flys, Fucks or Floats, Rent it. I guess I am not that Smart!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 We live in Austin and have a vacation place in Durango. Without the Mooney we could only go for a full week at a time. The drive is 14 hour each way, and on the airlines it's at least 5 hours very expensive hours and that's just flight time. Add another couple of hours of airport/TSA time. With the Mooney it's a weekend getaway. 3.5 hours flying time and the dog gets to come along. Priceless 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 how much does it cost to have a car idle for an hour in Atlanta traffic? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Just now, rbridges said: how much does it cost to have a car idle for an hour in Atlanta traffic? Depends on whether you've been rear-ended by an uninsured motorist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 ^^^^ HOLY CRAP!! ^^^^ I thought sails lasted years and years, not just a couple or three quick trips! And replacing each short-lived sail would buy my Mooney . . . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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