Let's do the math

[PTK]

Out of curiosity I was playing with some math comparing the trip cost in $/hr between car and Mooney.

On a hypothetical 300 sm trip the by car, the cost is 5.8$/hr. The by Mooney cost calculates to 57$/hr!

Assumptions: distance in statute miles and same from A to B, fuel costs: 2.90$ auto, 4.25$ avgas, fuel economy: 30 sm/gal for auto, 15 sm/gal for Mooney.

When you look at it this way it costs 10 times as much to go by Mooney! Obviously the distance travelled from A to B is shorter and time is much lower by Mooney and therein lie the savings. And of course flying the Mooney is priceless!

[MooneyBob]

You have ruined my day. I was about to go flying. 

[MooneyBob]

I have just calculated how much cost a pound of fish when you go fishing on your $150k boat compare to one from the supermarket. Do you want to know the numbers? 

[PTK]

I'm sorry Bob! I didn't mean to ruin your day! Check my math!

Noooooooooooo! No numbers on the fish...please!! That can be a lot worse! Imagine the days when the fish aren't biting!

I intentionally disregarded the cost of the airplane and car because they can vary greatly both ways. 

[Guest]

Airplanes are time machines.  You can't buy back time.

Clarence

 

[Mooneymite]

Just now, M20Doc said:

Airplanes are time machines.  You can't buy back time.

On many of my trips, when I add in planning, pre-flight, post-flight, time to and from the airport and chance of weather delays, there is no time savings.  On longer trips, sure, but then I bump into greater time savings offered by the airlines.  The single engine airplane gets squeezed between two (relatively) efficient modes:  autos and airlines.

[Danb]

To maintain sanity we can't do the math, don't forget your variable costs ton totally ruin you day

[BDPetersen]

When Orville, Wilbur, Charles, and Amelia first sat down to plan out "Aviation " the first rule they established was that "cost" and "justification " must never be spoken of. They then went on to write down all the aviation jokes that have recycled through the decades . . .

[BradB]

56 minutes ago, PTK said:

Out of curiosity I was playing with some math comparing the trip cost in $/hr between car and Mooney.

On a hypothetical 300 sm trip the by car, the cost is 5.8$/hr. The by Mooney cost calculates to 57$/hr!

Assumptions: distance in statute miles and same from A to B, fuel costs: 2.90$ auto, 4.25$ avgas, fuel economy: 30 sm/gal for auto, 15 sm/gal for Mooney.

When you look at it this way it costs 10 times as much to go by Mooney! Obviously the distance travelled from A to B is shorter and time is much lower by Mooney and therein lie the savings. And of course flying the Mooney is priceless!

 

Just now, BDPetersen said:

When Orville, Wilbur, Charles, and Amelia first sat down to plan out "Aviation " the first rule they established was that "cost" and "justification " must never be spoken of. They then went on to write down all the aviation jokes that have recycled through the decades . . .

Agree, @BDPetersen!   However, we can make the math look a little better.   Looking at the scenario above:

Trip by car = 300 miles / 60 mph = 5 hours * $5.8 = $29/trip  or  about $.10/mile

Mooney (making an assumption of 2 hours, I don't know the J speeds) $57/hr * 2 hours = $114/trip or about $.38/mile

So I go it down to a little less than 4 times as much for you.  

If I worked for the New York Times, I might be able to skew the facts even more and make a headline that read:  On a 300 mile trip, Mooney only costs $0.28 more.  

And thats before we add in all those unexpected car expenses like tires, oil changes,  valet parking fees, and car washes.  Cars can be such a money pit.

 

Brad

[slowflyin]

Pre airplane we drove the first and last day of our vacations. Whats the value of a days vacation? Roughly 2000 hours in a work year. Divide you and your spouses cumulative salary by it and you will come close to a book number excluding the quality of life factors. Time is a wonderful, valuable thing and a our Mooney is a time machine!


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[bonal]

I doubt any of us fly for economic reasons. A common trip home is around 145 miles by car 90 something by air with all time factors plugged in we save around 45 minutes each way. Flying over SF Bay Area traffic is worth every penny. And you are correct about owning an auto they have there own associated costs as well and must be factored into your math.

[N201MKTurbo]

I used to have a Suburban. I commuted to Tucson 3-5 days a week. The direct operating costs for the trip were almost identical. 

If you compare it to a modern small sedan your numbers work, but how many on here drive full sized pickups or SUVs?

BTW I got rid of the Suburban and bought a Tacoma that gets twice the mileage, about 24 MPG on a good day.

[Bob - S50]

3 hours ago, PTK said:

Out of curiosity I was playing with some math comparing the trip cost in $/hr between car and Mooney.

On a hypothetical 300 sm trip the by car, the cost is 5.8$/hr. The by Mooney cost calculates to 57$/hr!

Assumptions: distance in statute miles and same from A to B, fuel costs: 2.90$ auto, 4.25$ avgas, fuel economy: 30 sm/gal for auto, 15 sm/gal for Mooney.

When you look at it this way it costs 10 times as much to go by Mooney! Obviously the distance travelled from A to B is shorter and time is much lower by Mooney and therein lie the savings. And of course flying the Mooney is priceless!

As Brad pointed out, you are comparing apples and oranges (intentionally)?  You aren't flying an equal number or hours, you are flying an equal number of miles.

I always figure actual flight time will be distance/speed + 10 minutes for climb and maneuvering in the pattern.  300 SM is actually 261 NM.  I also figure that roads have turns and we can straighten them out with a plane.  I figure another 15% savings in distance.  That makes the trip 227 NM.

Using my assumptions, and a 150 KTAS for the J, that means I'll fly 91 minutes plus 10 equals 1+41 flying time.  We pay $25 hour toward hourly related maintenance and 9 GPH x $4.50/gallon = $40.50 for gas.  That's $65.50 total operating cost.  That makes the cost of the trip $110.25 vs Brad's $29 by car.

Of course, once you get there, if you are staying a while, you'll need to rent a car too.

And flying by Mooney is rarely cheaper than flying commercial either.

Like others have said, we don't fly for the economics, we fly for the fun.

[larryb]

When I plan a trip and consider whether to drive, fly myself, or fly commercial, I never consider the cost.  I consider the time, convenience, weather, etc. But not the cost. I also consider the airplane to be a yearly expense. The majority of the cost is tied up in hanger, maintenance, etc. The incremental cost of any particular trip is virtually free.

Edited November 20, 2016 by larryb

[Hank]

I'd done many time and distance comparisons between the Mooney and my vehicle. Distance is usually reduced by 1/3, since roads are never straight for several hundred miles.

WV to the beach:  336 nm = 387 SM by air; 508 sm by car. Google says it's 7:37, but for me it was usually 10-11 hours [traffic, gas stops, food stops, etc.]. By Mooney, it's ~2½ hours. There's no fuel there, so I have to approximate the fuel burn as 9 gph x 2½ = 22.5 gal. In the car, I used to get 30 mpg when traveling, so call it 17 gal. One third less distance, one third more fuel, trip complete in one third the time. There's nothing like a leisurely departure, arriving in time for lunch and not being worn out! Back then, even at it's worst, avgas was $5.60 and gal was ~$3, so direct expenses were $126 Mooney and $51 car, two and a half times the expense for quick, efficient travel that didn't wear me out.

Now it's changed to 434 nm = 499 SM by air; 599 miles by car, in 8:30 Google time, realistically at least 10 as I now go across/through/around Atlanta. ATL has also never cleared me through the Bravo when traveling, so add 20 minutes flight time for that detour, or 3½ hours x 9 gph = 31 gal @ $3.20 = $101 direct Mooney expenses; driving at the same 30 mpg is 20 gal @ ~$2 = $40. Flying is still 2½ times the driving cost, and a third of the time.

Deal! I'll take this every time . . . The longer the trip, the greater the payoff, too--fewer hotels enroute, no wasted days driving each way, no wasted days recovering from all day in the car, no traffic jams, no cops running radar to write tickets . . . .

[N201MKTurbo]

The real compairson is between the Mooney and the airlines. With two in the plane I can almost always beat the airlines in price and in most trips I can beat them in door to door time.

[chrisk]

My thoughts of a 4 day weekend and western Colorado are near.   600nm and 4 hours by air.  Don't forget to add the cost of a hotel room for the 12+ hour drive.  And probably the cost of a speeding ticket too.

[carusoam]

A plane is a hassle, with tremendous side benefits...

1) When I was young, I drove 250mi miles to get back home. Once per month...

2) When I got married, I drove the 250mi once per quarter...

3) When we had kids, The holidays were sacred...

4) So we bought a plane...

5) back to once per month were the trips back home... a few extra Cape Cod trips during the summer.

6) some times it was weekly (mom had gotten ill)

7) We have found that hour long trips are doable at the drop of a hat...  (round trip is two hours)

8) two hour trips use up too much of a day (round trip is four hours and leaving you kind of tired)

9) My kids know their grandparents, much better than I knew my own...

10) With a plane, I have gotten to know many people that I would have never met before.  Bought and sold some machines too.

11) There is nothing like flying back home mid week to drop off Xmas presents, so the kids don't see them in the back of the plane while flying up to see the grandparents...

12) No traffic while flying on the holidays...

13) A car can't take you as far or as often as you would like to go.  When it does, you are exhausted and not as pleasant as you would like to be...

14) Load four people into the family hauler...  how long does it take before you hear a chorus of 'are we almost there yet?'  Or, I have to pee, again'. This defines how much time of travel is acceptable for your family.

15) Using Pete's math for a 300mi trip He loses a day to travel on both ends of his trip, when he uses a car.  Unless traveling is considered part of the fun for everybody... this makes the 300mi trip for a weekend, two travel days, for one fun day.  A three day weekend becomes a drag for the whole family, that nobody looks forward to...

16) the 200nm trip back home is accomplished prior to lunch on Saturday. Anyone wanting to ignore the travel is asleep before wheels up... they wake up during the descent as the air gets more bumpy...

Clearly the costs are not just dollars and cents...

Maybe they are more like dollars and sense...  

 

Thanks for reminding me how much it costs to not fly!

Best regards,

-a-

[Mooneymite]

4 hours ago, Hank said:

 ATL has also never cleared me through the Bravo when traveling....

Atlanta is actually trying to get you to drive on I-75 where you can spend 10 hours in traffic and never get where you're headed.  It is good for Atlanta's hotels and restaurants.

[Ron McBride]

On short trips, the plane is not any faster, especially when you factor in the time to get to the airport, preflight and go.  It takes me an hour to drive, preflight and get the wheels up. Yesterday flew to Shafter CA for a new prop, approximately 1 hour each way, plus drive time.  If I drove it would be about 2 hours.  But if you are going to live life by this, you drive all the time.  I flew for many reasons, enjoyment, currency, what else is there?

Now on longer trips, The grandkids are in Oklahoma, we are in Central California.  28 hrs driving 2 nights and 95 gallons of gas, by Mooney, 9 1/2 hrs. flying, 1 long day and 95 gallons of gas.  No hotel bill.   I fly every chance I can to make this trip, but have driven it many times.

Ron

[aviatoreb]

Take it from me - I know about this topic.  I am especially qualified to advise on the following since  I am a Mooney owner and I am a Math Professor.  When it comes to airplanes and "The Math" - NEVER DO THE MATH. 

(Why?  For me the point is the fun and that is not usually built into the math.  Eg. Sure sometimes I might do a 2 hour flight for which yeah I could do the drive, and it would be cheaper as an 8 or 9 hour drive, by a lot, even including extra food, extra hotel, extra everything.  But I did't just save 6 or 7 hours, but I saved 9 hours, because I saved some boring activity and replaced it with something really fun - that I would rather be doing anyway.  Like one those bumper stickers, "Id rather be flying".  If I weren't going somewhere and it were the weekend and I had no where to go maybe I would go flying.)

Edited November 21, 2016 by aviatoreb

[1964-M20E]

Flying to KORL instead of driving is always better.  For week long trips it is always a toss up of having a vehicle available while there without renting one.  When it comes to long weekends flying is always the preferred method.

My birthday today and the wife said go buy something for the plane.   She really does not get it.  Now I just need to figure out what I want.

 

Besides just close your eyes put fuel in the plane and go.

[Mooneymite]

Just now, aviatoreb said:

 - NEVER DO THE MATH. 

I agree!

PTK needs to be forever banished for his original posting.

[PTK]

Hold on! Let's talk about this! 

I was just playing with some math. I didn't say I took it seriously! And I did say flying the Mooney is priceless!

Jeesh!!!! 

[INA201]

In a plane trip the vacation begins during preflight. For a work trip the work starts when you land.  In a car your vacation begins when you make it to your destination. For a work trip your work begins when you get into the car.  So simple algebra tells us that V=vacation overall experience/work productivity, T=value of your time, S=stress level/relaxation quotient, and O=overall value all on a 1-10 scale.  So let's say we are going on a nice 2 day  trip to Megaland. Megaland is a 3 hour flight or 8 hour drive and will be awesome!  Let's plug the numbers for both.

Driving  V3+T10+S4=O17

Flying     V10+T10+S9.5=O29.5

Overall experience in this particular case is 12.5 units better than driving.  Does anyone have the AMU conversion table handy?  

Kidding aside there is an unquantifiable joy associated with a trip by air even though it can and does cost a large amount of AMUs to participate.