Student pilot considering buying a 1960's vintage mooney

[Gerard]

Hi All,

I am a student pilot learning on a Cessna 172.   I have really liked what I have heard and read about the Mooney planes, and I am considering purchasing an older model M20C from 1962-1967.

But, I have had some people tell me that I should not make the Mooney my first purchase.  I should buy something simpler to operate and gain hours and experience before moving on to the Mooney.  What do you all think?  Is the Mooney M20C too much plane for a brand new pilot?  Thanks for your input.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Gerard!

Mooneys are not usually recommended for primary training...

But for early ownership, they make great planes.

An M20C was my first plane purchase.  I got it a couple of years after my PPL.  

My PPL went mostly unused until I had a plane.

Read up on plane ownership around here.  Everybody has different opinions on what works for them.

Good luck.

Best regards,

-a-

[bonal]

Welcome Gerard, it's great when we see new members that are getting their PPL. You might check out the Sam Husky and Skates threads lots of good discussion on the subject. You will find a split on the subject about a Mooney being a good choice for a new pilot. My opinion as a low timer myself would be that it's better to acquire some experience in a simple aircraft learning the challenges of aviation get your skills up before the added challenge of a complex airplane.  No one here knows your level of skill only you and your CFI can answer that. On the other side A m20c is a great airplane to move up to.  There are as many things to learn about ownership of an airplane as there is to flying one. You might spend some time sharing you training experience it makes for good reading that we all enjoy. Also the question about your location and type of mission you will have. Good luck with your fantastic adventure 

[BDPetersen]

The '60's vintage Mooneys can be a great value and good first airplane for a new owner. But I think I would sit tight until getting your PPL. In the '60's Mooney offered the M20D Master, a fixed gear, fixed prop version of the C that could be up-converted later. Not so different from a Cherokee in concept. I gave a lot of primary instruction in them back in the day. But you won't find one today that hasn't been converted to retractable gear.

I believe you would be better off staying with the C172 for your primary training. It's  as much of a stick and rudder airplane as you will find these days and you are more likely to pick up some well rounded skills. 

[Hank]

I'd recommend finishing your PPL in the rental. Look for and buy your Vintage Mooney when you find a good one (there are many threads here about Pre Purchase Inspections, read them too). Changing to a Mooney during training will only slow you down because you will need the Complex Endorsement before you solo,then you'll need to practice most of the maneuvers again.

Many of us bought Mooneys as our first planes. Some "built time" in trainers first; some like Anthony just waited and flew very little; some like me bought a Mooney just after our PPL checkride and continued to learn. It depends on your skill level, your commitment to learning, your ability to learn and of course the knowledge and Mooney experience if your CFI.

Congratulations on starting your training! Please continue to visit here. Read the threads by Skates and Samurai Husky, two brand new pilots who just took their checkrides, to see how things are going now and what you have to look forward to.

[rbridges]

I jumped into mine a year after completing my PPL.  At the time, I was flying a cherokee 180 and feeling fat and happy.  After a while, I realized I wanted something different and bought the mooney.  My point is that you may not know what your flying missions will be, and you need to get a plane that accomodates what you will be doing.  How many people, how often, how far, and at how much cost are things you will need to consider.

 

[201er]

It's ok for a Mooney to be a first plane but not advisable as a pre-licensed plane for students. No reason to buy a Cessna first. Rent till you are rated and comfortable and then go for a Mooney. Be sure to get a lot of good transition training.

[Danb]

My experience was the same as R Bridges, I got my ppl in a Cherokee and then bought a J and got my Ifr in the J, it all worked out great that way, I needed to learn how to fly the Mooney properly so I coupled that with my instrument training 

[Conrad]

I did just that almost two years ago, and I'm still not done with my license. Some delays due to being broke, some delays while recovering from a major injury, and some from switching jobs twice -- so not all the fault of training in a complex aircraft (and airspace, KOAK). I'd say though by far the most challenging aspect was finding a flight instructor compatible with insurance requirements and scheduling his time when the stars aligned and: he was available, I had time, I could pay him, the weather was good and the plane wasn't grounded. Especially when the aircraft needs maintenance you'll have trouble. Various kinds of maintenance problems are routine for these older planes, and you'll need to know how you plan to get the aircraft where it needs to go if services are not available on your home field.

EDIT: of special note with regard to maintenance: having a PPL itself gives you some privileges with regard to maintenance. You will not technically have these privileges, and furthermore even once you are able to solo, FARs explicitly disallow you from flying the plane for any reason other than training. You cannot legally fly the aircraft by yourself to a maintenance appointment, nor flight test it by yourself after maintenance is done.

That said I now have my complex endorsement, no longer have nerves soloing in the pattern, and mostly just need cross country time to be ready for my checkride, so there is hope!

If you planned well and a few of these variables were different for you I could see things going well for you. If you're interviewing a potential instructor, talk to him about porpoising. To a student it's the most dangerous aspect of a Mooney that is not found so readily in other complex airplanes. The last accident report I read was an attempted go around after a prop strike on a porpoised landing, and that person did not live.

Best of luck, and however you do it, I hope you join the Mooney family!

Edited November 13, 2016 by Conrad

[mpg]

besides studying sam husky and skates for the mooney ppl training,,  study raptor0521? concerning the trials and tribulations of buying an old mooney.

[APTUS Pilot]

Great feedback in this thread. Read Conrad's comments carefully. I am basically doing what Danb did.

Did my primary in a rented Archer. No regrets there and it set me up nicely to ease into the low-wing M20J that I bought about a month after my PPL checkride. I am glad that I did my PPL training in a simple aircraft. The 201 I fly now has humbled me a couple times (mostly landing) and things can definitely happen much faster. I could not be happier with the transition overall however. Now it is a great IFR training platform. Love my Mooney, but also appreciated primary training in the Archer.

Ben

[gsxrpilot]

I think the conventional wisdom here is to finish your Private, then get the Mooney so you can get comfortable with it prior to starting your IFR training. I owned a C for awhile and happen to think it's just fine for any student pilot who has reached the solo cross country phase of training.

Just my optimistic $0.02

[Andy95W]

Basically,  beat the crap out of somebody else's landing gear, not your own. 

[SantosDumont]

Mooneys are not very sympathetic to mistakes. Get your ticket and get a few dozen hours flying experience before you buy one. I had 100 hrs when I got my PPL flying mainly Cessnas and Cherokees. Immediately after I got my ticket I did 10hrs of training in the Mooney (insurance requirement to solo) to get my complex endorsement and bought myself a 1967 F. 

I'd recommend that you finish your license then do your 10hrs complex training in a rental Mooney. If you're still in love with the idea of owning one after that (you will be) then just do it!  You only live once. 

[Conrad]

I hear this landing gear line every time the topic comes up. I know I'll find out at some point what the impact is, as I've put student pilot landings onto a relatively young tank sealing job. Anyone else have insight into this? Is the sealant really so fragile?

[201er]

32 minutes ago, Conrad said:

I hear this landing gear line every time the topic comes up. I know I'll find out at some point what the impact is, as I've put student pilot landings onto a relatively young tank sealing job. Anyone else have insight into this? Is the sealant really so fragile?

No. but when it is old and brittle, you're just asking for it.

[AndyCapp]

Hi Gerard,

Welcome on board. I was still busy on my PPL  ( at the ripe age of 56) when I purchased a 1977 M20J. I could not get enough of flying my mooney. Just make sure you have a knowledgeable instructor for the mooney. Follow check lists diligently and plan ahead on every flight. Do  not let the plane get ahead of you when flying.

You will fall in love with the plane. Enough said.

Regards

Andy

[Dave Colangelo]

Ill throw in some advise as someone going through this right now. I finished up my PPL almost a year ago now and have been looking at planes on and off since I did that. I have flown less than anticipated in an effort to put some aside to actually buy a plane. The free time has let me to gain a lot of knowledge on buying and what to look for, here is some advise from what I have seen, 

• You are going to pay on one end for the plane (up front or down the line). Generally it seems more cost effective to buy a plane that is setup closer to what you want but perhaps more expensive upfront. For example I have been looking mainly at the C's and E's with a decent panel and a WAAS 430, these tend to sell for less than it would take be to buy a cheap plane and outfit it my self. Granted you may lose the ability to customize it to your liking. Read up on engine time/overhauls etc and get a feel for how that all plays into cost/value. 
• The little things add up, do a through analysis of the cost and read what this forum has to offer. Talk to owners, and see if someone will take you up flying. After talking to a few of the guys from here, going to the airport and costing out tie downs and hangers, getting insurance quotes etc. the cost was well above what I had initially anticipated. Submit for actual insurance (and loan if you are going that way) quotes, they will be different than the ones the online calculators give you. Get the underwriter or the loan officer on the phone and actually talk about what they are expecting hour/down payment wise. Don't forget things like taxes etc. on the sale, take a look at your local state on this one. Be realistic not optimistic about this.  
• There are plenty of planes out there for sale, be willing to wait for the right one. 
• Read about the common flaws/issues with the models you are looking at as well as the mods that people commonly do. This way when you go to look at an air frame you know what you are getting yourself into and what questions to ask.
• Get your PPL first, see the various points on that. Its going to be cheaper and easier to finish out your training in what ever you are training in, then transition right afterwards. 
• Whats your mission? When it comes to 4 place cross country planes that are fast and good on gas the Mooney's cant be beat by the numbers. But there are other missions out there that may be better suited by other planes. 

Regards 

Dave

[Htwjr]

I got my PPL in May 2013 and my M20C in June.  Like others have said,  I would recommend that you finish your training first.  I did a fair amount of research when looking for a plane and given that I love efficiency, simplicity, a good useful load and some speed too, there was really only one choice.  

[Sean S]

Everyone has said it and it is my personal experience as well. I earned the PPL in the rental C172. I had already bought the Mooney and transitioned the following week to my M20F. I agree with the advice to get the PPL in the rental C172. Now I have 13 hours solo time in my Mooney! 

[DXB]

One can certainly train in a Mooney with the appropriate instructor, but the issues folks outline above are real.  I started looking as I was finishing my PPL two years ago and started flying my C model a month after my checkride. The transition was incredibly enjoyable and not hard, and I have nearly 250 hrs now in that plane. I think the plane has let me grow much more as a pilot than continuing to rent a trainer would have.  It is also  accessible to me at a whim, which means I fly a whole lot more than I would have otherwise. I think getting one as you are finishing your PPL is a great time to do it - just make sure you have a good transition instructor.  You can then set up the avionics however you want and move on to your IR....

[Yetti]

things happen faster in the Mooney.   When you feel you are on top of your game landing a trainer.  then would be a good time to add to the workload.  You fly the plane, not the other way around.

[klystron]

I had issues getting a 3rd class medical so I went with a sport rating first. After finishing my sport rating I managed to get a 3rd class medical and bought an M20C. I finished up my PPL in the M20C. I had 80 hours flying LSAs and took my checkride after about 20hrs dual in the Mooney, most of that was finishing up the instrument and night flying. 

So yes, it is doable, but it'll take you longer to finish. I'd only switch once you are super comfortable in a trainer.