Log entry for updating Nav Database?

[eaglebkh]

At a recent AOPA/FAAST Seminar, the presentor threw out some trivia about how the FAR's require owners to log any Nav (GPS) database updates in the airframe log.  He even showed us the relevant FAR (I can't remember which section).

I had never heard of this before, and have obviously not been logging such updates.  So are any of you aware of this, and do you log updates?

[jlunseth]

Is it possible you didn't understand him correctly?  To my knowledge there is no requirement to log database updates.  However, if there is a firmware update, that is a different thing.  A firmware update changes the software that runs the nav device and it apparently needs to be done by an A&P, at least that is what Garmin requires.  It would not surprise me if the A&P logs the firmware update.

Never heard of logging a database update, the device itself records and displays the currency date of the database, so why log it also?

[FlyDave]

I started a thread on this earlier this year:

http://mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&forumid=4&threadid=1295

I keep a record of 430 DB updates in my fuel/oil log in the airplane. I also have a white board in my hangar that I make entries on.

[mooney231]

Quote: eaglebkh

At a recent AOPA/FAAST Seminar, the presentor threw out some trivia about how the FAR's require owners to log any Nav (GPS) database updates in the airframe log.  He even showed us the relevant FAR (I can't remember which section).

I had never heard of this before, and have obviously not been logging such updates.  So are any of you aware of this, and do you log updates?

[eaglebkh]

Quote: jlunseth

Is it possible you didn't understand him correctly?

[tony]

I believe the FAR says that you must keep a maintenance record.  It doesn’t say anything about keeping a logbook.  When you power the unit up, you see the maintenance record. 

[danb35]

Quote: tony

I believe the FAR says that you must keep a maintenance record.  It doesn’t say anything about keeping a logbook.  When you power the unit up, you see the maintenance record. 

[tony]

It’s a life limited part with an expiration date that has a mandatory replacement and you are following the installation manual for continued airworthiness.  The electronic record keeping shows the expiration date.  Should fall under 43.10

[kortopates]

I've enjoyed monitoring the site, but haven't posted till now and thought I would add my two cents to this thread.

Jason spelled it out very well that updating avionics DB is "maintenance" and showed the requirements by which "all" maintenance must be logged. Danb35 explained exactly why the the units expiration date does not qualify as a maintenance record spelled out in 43.9 which requires 3 to 4 pieces of information in the maintenance record and the expiration date of the database is not one of them.

Complain all you want about the silliness of this but its clearly spelled out and its so very simple to properly log all your database updates in your VOR Test log. That's what I've been doing with the 3 databases I have, including my Jepp charts DB which is updated every 14 days. Although a pain perhaps, not a big deal.

[mooney231]

Quote: tony

It’s a life limited part with an expiration date that has a mandatory replacement and you are following the installation manual for continued airworthiness.  The electronic record keeping shows the expiration date.  Should fall under 43.10

[Jeff_S]

I went to that same seminar in Atlanta and heard the same instruction.

I wonder, if everything that was *supposed* to be logged on a 20+ year old airplane actually had been logged somewhere, what size room that would fill up? No disputing the regs, but this one seems like the technology curve got ahead of the reg writers. As noted above, clearly the unit itself will tell an inspector whether or not the database is current, and the mere fact that it powers up will show that it's functional (after self tests). So who cares what's written down in a book somewhere?

[mooney231]

Quote: Jeff_S

I went to that same seminar in Atlanta and heard the same instruction.

I wonder, if everything that was *supposed* to be logged on a 20+ year old airplane actually had been logged somewhere, what size room that would fill up? No disputing the regs, but this one seems like the technology curve got ahead of the reg writers. As noted above, clearly the unit itself will tell an inspector whether or not the database is current, and the mere fact that it powers up will show that it's functional (after self tests). So who cares what's written down in a book somewhere?

[eaglebkh]

Since updating the database is considered preventative maintanence, is it required to be logged in the airframe log, or just a separate log like the VOR check.  Since a VOR check is not preventative maintanence (nothing is about the airplane changed because of the VOR check), I'm thinking it's okay to log it on a separate log, but not the database log?

[GeorgePerry]

I think we all can agree that some rule are just stupid and serve no real purpose.  This is one of them.

My question to the group is how does an individual address a rule change with the FAA.  I never seen nor heard of a "proposed rule change" form or any formalized way joe average can make a recommnedation for a change.

thoughts from the group...

[danb35]

Quote: eaglebkh

Since updating the database is considered preventative maintanence, is it required to be logged in the airframe log, or just a separate log like the VOR check.

[danb35]

Quote: GeorgePerry

My question to the group is how does an individual address a rule change with the FAA.

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: danb35

[DonMuncy]

I keep a log separate from the airframe log (so as to not clutter up my logbook), along with my VOR checks, on the attached form. It may be overkill, but it is easy and I think it complies with the regs.

Don

[DonMuncy]

Apparently my attachment didn't attach. Here is the form.

Don

 

 

On the dates set out below, I, -----------, holder of ----------- Pilot Certificate number -----------, updated the Air Traffic Control navigational software data bases (Jeppesen aviation database) in the Garmin GNS 430 Global Positioning System installed in Aircraft N----------, pursuant to the instructions provided by Garmin International, Inc and Jeppesen aviation database services, under the authority of 14 CFR Section 43.3, and Section A43.1 © (32), Federal Aviation Regulations.  After the update, and prior to flight, an operational check was successfully completed and the aircraft was approved for return to service.

 

 

 

Date _________________      Signature _______________________________

 

 

Date _________________      Signature _______________________________