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Not sure about the NE but something I learned in last week's 3-hour Tracon tour here in Houston is that Approach owns the airspace above our Bravo all the way up to 16,000'. Even if you're VFR at 11,000' (here) you're still in their airspace and they would prefer to be controlling you (either IFR or FF). Houston Center owns the airspace above 16K. It's just an observation that I was previously unaware of.


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Depends on the congestion and unfortunately the mood of the controller. I was around 10000 ft. approaching Charlotte from the south and had a choice climb 5000 ft of get a major reroute I went up, was then handed off to next Clt  controller and they what I'm climbing to I stated when I checked say 10 for 16 I told him I was given that choice he asked would I rather be at 10 I say affirmative 23ps descend and maintain 10000, what a waste of time,energy and fuel.

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31 minutes ago, N6758N said:

Mike,

I can see this being the case as you mention. I guess all my flying inside the Philly Bravo led me to that conclusion. If it was a gorgeous VFR day and I was doing a long XC, I would consider launching VFR and then picking up and IFR clearance down the road when I was outside of congested airspace. To me its easier just to do all the IFR planning on the ground and get the clearance instead of having to focus on it while flying the airplane. 

It really depends on the airport you're departing. Believe me, there's all different ways this goes. Having the flexibility to go either way is best.

At a towered airport, they will handle your clearance. You're already talking to them and they may be controlling you in their airspace so going one step further and getting IFR from them is no effort at all.

Then you have uncontrolled fields but with a convenient remote clearance frequency and not too busy. A bit more effort than above but not much more effort than getting it in the air.

But then you have uncontrolled fields with no frequency to get a clearance and you have to do it over a phone. If it's VMC, getting up into the air in radio contact with anyone that can give you a clearance directly is preferable over dealing with a phone in a noisy environment. Worse yet, if it is in fact VMC, you may be blocking up the taxiway sitting waiting for a clearance while others behind you want to go around the pattern VFR. A 3000ft overcast day could be a prime example of this. Certainly VFR weather but you need IFR clearance to get over the clouds for your cross country.

Worst scenario of all is the one just prior but surrounded by busy airspace. Linden is a prime example. Usually we can reach Newark clearance delivery by radio but 15-60 minute delays waiting for clearance are typical. Usually you can only take off in one direction or wait even longer. If it's busy and the frequency doesn't work, you can sit there holding the phone for 15-60 minutes waiting for a release. If there is ANY chance you can make it out safely in VMC and pick it up ANYWHERE else, you're much better off. Not to mention the crazy routing you'll get from a place like that.

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31 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

So, let's say I'm north of NYC, I want to start out VFR, fly the Hudson corridor then continue south, after leaving bravo umbrella I would climb to 8000' on my way to RBV and call Old Bridge departure frequency to pick up clearance, and fly over Philadelphia bravo airspace.

Will they let me overfly at 8000 and since I'm calling the designated departure frequency I assume that they will have no problem with it?

As long as you're not asking philly for the clearance, once it is issued you're good to go. You may not be issued the routing you would like though. If you need the IFR to get to 8000, then use it. If you can get up there VFR, you can fly VFR over the bravo and pick up IFR later.

What often happens going to Florida is that I go all the way to Georgia without a cloud in sight. But as I approach JAX, weather gets more iffy and I pick up an IFR from CRG to destination. I file it in advance or over the radio with flight service. I'd be happy to go IFR all the way but then I will get jerked around with routing, altitudes, etc so I prefer VFR until I need it. On the other hand, in places where IFR is always cleared direct or cleared as filed, why not always use it? It's like flight following but with perks.

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1 hour ago, 201er said:

On the other hand, in places where IFR is always cleared direct or cleared as filed, why not always use it? It's like flight following but with perks.

That's what I was used to before I moved back South. I could sometimes reach the nearby Class D on the ground, but once over treetop height it was simple. So I'd take off and either depart off to the right or from downwind [to avoid their airspace] then call them for Flight Following or to open my IFR flight plan. A couple times I had to call them on my cell phone due to ceilings, only had to wait once and that day it was worth it.

Now, I can't reach anyone until I'm a couple thousand feet up. so far, ATL Approach hasn't minded opening my IFR flight plan; sometimes they clear me as filed, then reroute me around the Bravo [it's mysterious airspace, I've flown all around it and beneath it, but never through it, day or night, IFR or VFR . . .]. With the drought this year, IMC has been difficult to find, but it looks like we're heading into a normal winter--that's what the National Clearance toll-freenumber is for, it's even quicker than calling the D tower and getting switched to a recorded line.

Clearance Delivery 888-766-8267

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Mike,
I can see this being the case as you mention. I guess all my flying inside the Philly Bravo led me to that conclusion. If it was a gorgeous VFR day and I was doing a long XC, I would consider launching VFR and then picking up and IFR clearance down the road when I was outside of congested airspace. To me its easier just to do all the IFR planning on the ground and get the clearance instead of having to focus on it while flying the airplane. 


Philly is impossible to pick up airborne IFR clearances. I don't even try anymore. I got their direct number and will call for my clearance via telephone. I also stopped trying to figure out what route would make sense and just file direct and let them torture me with the routing from hell.

Conversely, when flying from the airport I visit in NY, I am always doing an airborne pickup when it is VFR. My first half dozen exchanges with Rochester through the RCO went like this;

"Good afternoon Rochester, Mooney NXXXXX on the ground at Genesee County looking for IFR clearance to N57"

"Mooney NXXXXX can you depart VFR?"

"Mooney NXXXXX, can depart VFR"

"Mooney NXXXXX squawk 4220 and call us up when our airborne"

Easy. Not some much with Philly. I also don't think Philly has LOAs with Harrisburg. If I tried to obtain a routing through Harrisburg's airspace I always get "hold on a minute, let me see if they will accept that".



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1 minute ago, Marauder said:

Philly is impossible to pick up airborne IFR clearances. I don't even try anymore. I got their direct number and will call for my clearance via telephone. I also stopped trying to figure out what route would make sense and just file direct and let them torture me with the routing from hell.

I like when I file a "just in case" IFR flight plan, depart VFR and expect to proceed VFR, but on initial contact with ATC for radar advisories I get, "Mooney 4361H Squawk 1234, I have your IFR on file, advise when ready to copy."

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I like when I file a "just in case" IFR flight plan, depart VFR and expect to proceed VFR, but on initial contact with ATC for radar advisories I get, "Mooney 4361H Squawk 1234, I have your IFR on file, advise when ready to copy."


LOL! Yeah that crap happens as well.


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7 hours ago, 201er said:

I like when I file a "just in case" IFR flight plan, depart VFR and expect to proceed VFR, but on initial contact with ATC for radar advisories I get, "Mooney 4361H Squawk 1234, I have your IFR on file, advise when ready to copy."

Can't you answer that you want to stay VFR for a little while? Then go where you want to . . .  :lol:

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14 hours ago, 201er said:

Worse yet, if it is in fact VMC, you may be blocking up the taxiway sitting waiting for a clearance while others behind you want to go around the pattern VFR. 

Why are you blocking a taxiway?  "Call us when you are No 1 for departure" and literally no other place where it is reasonable to wait?

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19 hours ago, Marauder said:

 


Philly is impossible to pick up airborne IFR clearances. I don't even try anymore. I got their direct number and will call for my clearance via telephone. I also stopped trying to figure out what route would make sense and just file direct and let them torture me with the routing from hell.

Conversely, when flying from the airport I visit in NY, I am always doing an airborne pickup when it is VFR. My first half dozen exchanges with Rochester through the RCO went like this;

"Good afternoon Rochester, Mooney NXXXXX on the ground at Genesee County looking for IFR clearance to N57"

"Mooney NXXXXX can you depart VFR?"

"Mooney NXXXXX, can depart VFR"

"Mooney NXXXXX squawk 4220 and call us up when our airborne"

Easy. Not some much with Philly. I also don't think Philly has LOAs with Harrisburg. If I tried to obtain a routing through Harrisburg's airspace I always get "hold on a minute, let me see if they will accept that".



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It's very easy in Philly if your going south, say Florida expect vectors north, and going north expect soutf vectors. Recently going to Detroit northwest, Philly gave me direct woodstown, due east. Chris just figure whatever way you want to go they'll put you in the opposite direction vfr or Ifr.

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19 hours ago, Marauder said:

 


Philly is impossible to pick up airborne IFR clearances. I don't even try anymore. I got their direct number and will call for my clearance via telephone. I also stopped trying to figure out what route would make sense and just file direct and let them torture me with the routing from hell.

Conversely, when flying from the airport I visit in NY, I am always doing an airborne pickup when it is VFR. My first half dozen exchanges with Rochester through the RCO went like this;

"Good afternoon Rochester, Mooney NXXXXX on the ground at Genesee County looking for IFR clearance to N57"

"Mooney NXXXXX can you depart VFR?"

"Mooney NXXXXX, can depart VFR"

"Mooney NXXXXX squawk 4220 and call us up when our airborne"

Easy. Not some much with Philly. I also don't think Philly has LOAs with Harrisburg. If I tried to obtain a routing through Harrisburg's airspace I always get "hold on a minute, let me see if they will accept that".



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It's very easy in Philly if your going south, say Florida expect vectors north, and going north expect soutf vectors. Recently going to Detroit northwest, Philly gave me direct woodstown, due east. Chris just figure whatever way you want to go they'll put you in the opposite direction vfr or Ifr.

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It's very easy in Philly if your going south, say Florida expect vectors north, and going north expect soutf vectors. Recently going to Detroit northwest, Philly gave me direct woodstown, due east. Chris just figure whatever way you want to go they'll put you in the opposite direction vfr or Ifr.


One thing I have learned working with Philly from my airport is EVERYTHING is direct MXE. Even if I am going south. Most of the time going south and before I get to MXE, I'll either get asked to join either V29 via a vector or asked to go direct ENO.

If I am going to Lancaster, that one is easy.

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1 hour ago, Danb said:

It's very easy in Philly if your going south, say Florida expect vectors north, and going north expect soutf vectors. Recently going to Detroit northwest, Philly gave me direct woodstown, due east. Chris just figure whatever way you want to go they'll put you in the opposite direction vfr or Ifr.

This is so common in many areas of the country. Most of my trips are northbound but Palm Beach approach always take me fifty miles due west before saying those sacred words, "proceed on course".

I suspect things are going to get even worse with the new president. Just today I received three TFR's in my Inbox restricting Palm Beach airspace effective tomorrow through January 3rd. Luckily it only covers a radius of 3 miles, but after January 20th, I will be under the veil.

 

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I've had plus minus luck with the NY controllers. For instance I was able to pick up a pop up IFR in NY ... but was asked to report a EWR arrival stream in sight and descend by 500 ft. One of the themes is will I create a conflict / loss of separation / deal if I become IFR where I am right now.

Alternatively flying at 4am over Bridgeport trying to pick up IFR with NY when the frequency was dead as a door nail and it wasn't like the guy was working multiple sectors, I was told to go to FSS to activate my IFR. Given the FSS specialist was going to call the same controller for my request, it just seemed punitive.

Already having a back-up IFR on file is helpful as at least you are in the system.

Pop up IFR for local flights within the TRACONs airspace should never be a big deal - there is less work in generating a strip and routing agains LoAs, etc. for the controller.

If flying VFR with for instance a cloud layer at destination requiring an approach, I'll try to wait until I'm in the airspace for the controller working the destination airport or at least that Tracon to ask for a pop up clearance. It's easier on the controllers that way.


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5 hours ago, flyboy0681 said:

This is so common in many areas of the country. Most of my trips are northbound but Palm Beach approach always take me fifty miles due west before saying those sacred words, "proceed on course".

 

Can't you fly higher, I gotta believe if you are climbing to 9000/10000 you'll be more in the way out west since all runways run E/W

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I file and fly IFR probably 99% of the time.  I might do flight following on a CAVU day when I am not going very far, or when I have someone on board to whom I would like to give the controls for awhile and they probably won't make altitude or course very precisely.  IFR makes planning much easier, especially with the pop-up TFR's we have now for sports stadiums.  I have to say, ATC is very helpful the great majority of the time, and the exceptions are areas of high traffic like routing around Chicago, East Coast or Orlando.  The vast majority of the time I just get direct wherever I am going, however far that is.  The only pain for me, because I am up in the flight levels much of the time, is radio reception, especially around storm fronts.  I have a built in clock that wants to hear the voice of ATC every 15 minutes or so talking to somebody, and if I don't hear it I go looking for them.  Sometimes you have to get creative about it, but there is always a solution other than defaulting to IFR NORDO rules.

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1 hour ago, jlunseth said:

 I have a built in clock that wants to hear the voice of ATC every 15 minutes or so talking to somebody, and if I don't hear it I go looking for them.  Sometimes you have to get creative about it, but there is always a solution other than defaulting to IFR NORDO rules.

Your standards and mine are worlds apart. Since I went NORDO last year I get nervous if I don't hear some chatter inside of a five minute period. 

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I would guess that depends on where you fly.  Out in the middle of the Dakotas it is not uncommon for ATC not to say anything for 15 minutes, and especially not uncommon for them to not say much to a "November" aircraft. I would be doing alot of unnecessary radio checks if I did it every 5 minutes, but I can certainly understand the concern.  

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