help in buying my first Mooney

[Josue]

1969 N9371V M20 C Ranger asking for $69,500 from MD advertised on Trade a plane.  http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20C+RANGER&listing_id=2200345&s-type=aircraft

[carusoam]

What kind of help are you looking for?

Are you looking for a really nice M20C? Looks like you might have one there.

Are you familiar with PPIs?

You already have plane ownership experience?

What is your typical flight's mission? How far, how fast, how many people/adults...

Best regards,

-a-

[orionflt]

Nice looking aircraft but over priced for current configuration. 

Brian

[1964-M20E]

yes does seem a little over priced.

[klystron]

That is way overpriced. I paid far less for my '62C with similar engine time, newer paint, and far nicer avionics. You can see pictures of mine here: 

I wouldn't pay more than $50,000 for that aircraft I think.

[gsxrpilot]

38 minutes ago, klystron said:

I wouldn't pay more than $50,000 for that aircraft I think.

If this is a $50K M20C, I sold mine way too cheap.  I wouldn't give $40K for this airplane. Paint is beautiful, interior is ok, engine hours are good, speed-mods (there are some, but many are missing), panel is terrible as is autopilot (or lack thereof). This is an example of an owner spending all their money in all the wrong places.

Just my $0.02

[cnoe]

I don't know much about Cs but was surprised to see the electric gear and a throttle quadrant! How many of those are outfitted similarly?


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[rbridges]

2 minutes ago, cnoe said:

I don't know much about Cs but was surprised to see the electric gear and a throttle quadrant! How many of those are outfitted similarly?


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I believe hank has a 70 model and it's outfitted the same. 

I felt the same about the price being high. Getting into the F and J price ranges. 

[kortopates]

If you think $50K is over priced, you should see the for $60K one I just looked at for a friend. Great paint and interior with only 400 hrs on the engine but old tired avionics yet a STEC AP.
I get the impression you guys would give it the thumbs down too? I don't have a link to it but it's based at KSEE.


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[Guest]

It's worth what a willing buyer and seller can agree on.  Ask anything you want, but you may not get it.

Clarence

 

[Hank]

Cs are amazingly versatile in operation, and surprisingly high in value as a result.

I think the quadrants were introduced in the mid-60s, but were certainly there when the panel was regularized and gear and flaps both went electric (starting in 68 or 69). 

 

[Ron McBride]

69's were the first year of the quadrant, 6 pack instrument layout, electric gear and flaps.   This C model is the original layout.  Same as my F.

Ron

[TTaylor]

The cold hard facts of life.  A C will never be an E or F.  An E or F will never be a J.   The price of one is limited by the price of the next step up model.  Once a C gets above $45k you start asking why not go with a E or F.  Once these get above about $65-70k you ask why not just buy a J.   

[Raptor05121]

8 hours ago, TTaylor said:

The cold hard facts of life.  A C will never be an E or F.  An E or F will never be a J.   The price of one is limited by the price of the next step up model.  Once a C gets above $45k you start asking why not go with a E or F.  Once these get above about $65-70k you ask why not just buy a J.   

So true!

[Bob_Belville]

14 hours ago, TTaylor said:

The cold hard facts of life.  A C will never be an E or F.  An E or F will never be a J.   The price of one is limited by the price of the next step up model.  Once a C gets above $45k you start asking why not go with a E or F.  Once these get above about $65-70k you ask why not just buy a J.   

Sure, but there's a lot of overlap. I think we've seen M20Js referenced here recently from under $50k to well over $125k, perhaps $150k. A well equipped vintage plane with recent paint, interior and good engine time can be worth quite a bit more than an all original J with a run out engine.  

[Pictreed]

If all the mechanical checks out with those mods I would say $45k-$50k.  It's a really nice plane so thats why I shot a bit high.

Make sure the fuel tanks have been completely stripped and re-sealed or bladders installed within the last 5 years. Otherwise you'll need to add about $8k once you buy it.  Plan on it being out of service for a month. 

You're going to be around $25k-$30k for new avionics soon (GPS, NAV/COM 1 & 2, transponder, audio panel) and you will have to deal with the plane being down a month or more for that.  Unless you just repair as things go out then you could get out for $10k. 

I don't see the OP so maybe I'll stop there.  He might have moved on. 

Tim

[ArtVandelay]

30 minutes ago, Pictreed said:

 

Make sure the fuel tanks have been completely stripped and re-sealed or bladders installed within the last 5 years. Otherwise you'll need to add about $8k once you buy it.  Plan on it being out of service for a month. 

Are you saying you have to reseal tanks every five years? I think they should last a lot longer than that.

[geoffb]

Just started my first slight seep on the right side after a 1999 reseal.  I think if you keep them inside and full, a good reseal should last a long time.

 

[geoffb]

I'll sell you an honest, solid, well maintained '66 E for a whole lot less than that.  Enough less for you to paint it the way you want, get the interior the way want and fly the hell out of it.  That one's a '69 so it's not a clean wing (I'm a snob), goofy throttle quadrant so you can pretend you're flying a twin, electric gear (with old Dukes actuator?), a three-blade prop to make it slower.  I'm with the Suzuki pilot, money spent in all the wrong places.  I disagree with Tim, it doesn't need an avionics upgrade, VORs and that GPS will get you wherever you want to go.  But it could stand an autopilot.

[Hank]

The twisted wings were in 67. My 70 C has flush rivets on the wing everywhere that the airflow remains laminar,and slightly raised rivets behind the flow separation line.p where they dint make a difference. Never had a problem with my electric gear or electric flaps. I also have the 3-blade speed brake on the nose like this one. Note that book speed fir this flight was 164 mph = 143 knots.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Hank

[geoffb]

Hank, that's nice performance.  What kind of power setting?  That's about what I see in cruise on my E at that altitude where my MP would be a hair over 20-21 inches and running 2,500 for what, 65% power give or take.

Do 67 Fs have a twisted wing?  I though that was a 68 thing, like on Gs,

Edited November 11, 2016 by geoffb

[Hank]

Geoff, I was VFR at 9500 msl, 20"/2500 and deviating right around an airshow TFR. OAT was in the mid-50s °F, so power was reduced below book values (standard temp at 10,000 msl = 23°F for a 3% power loss vs. Performance Table showing 71% power and 164 mph).

Edited November 11, 2016 by Hank

[bradp]

It's a nice plane.  It's just not worth the asking price (to me anyway). 

Presumably the OH was at the gear up in 2003.  You'd have to look into what was done with that.  If the prop was 400 hrs then the engine probably was done 200 hrs before that and was inspected.  Also 400 hrs of time since prop in 2003 (again would have to check whether this was replaced at gear up or overhauled) may indicate low utilization***. It would just need to be checked into.  Seems rather low time overall; good bad or neutral.  So 15-20 years on an engine that was IRANed after a gear up would make me think a bit harder about the crank.  

Seems like the seller is trying to get back what was put in for the recent P&I/ glass. 

Avionics outdated.  2020 coming up cross country planes that aren't ADSB equipped will be harder to sell in all likelihood. Lack of an autopilot is an issue.   

This would be an excellent candidate for the cowling mod STC. Btw.  It would look like a mini acclaim with a 4-banger with that mod.  

Personally I'd be willing to spend something in the mid 40s

*** I read the two pages of logbooks on the trade a plane.  Plane flew 10hrs in 18 months and between 10/14 and 4/16 and was out of annual.  No indication of ferry permit so the IA is local to the field.  I'd be worried about that camshaft Avblend or not.  

 

 

[Pictreed]

Teejay, I would think it would last for more than 30.  I think my thought process was that if it were done 15 years ago it could be fine or it could have been treated poorly and start leaking again.  If it were just 5 years ago you stand a better chance of it being able to last another 25 years.  

Geoff, it's perfectly fine to use the basics, but that equipment is old.  I personally don't trust it but if you guys do I understand.  You probably have better experience with it than I have had.  I've lost old equipment during flights and now I'm flying IMC...no thanks.  It could be good or it may all be junk.  Especially if it has just sat for several years.  

I guess in a lunch break quick post I don't explain myself well.  

[glafaille]

Overpriced.  At that price I would expect a more recent overhaul, recent GPS with WAAS and at least an Stec 30 autopilot.

Technically speaking, Lycoming recommends an overhaul at 12 years.  This engine is now at that point.

I agree, it's likely a $45,000 to $50,000 airplane as is. For his asking price I would rather have a "J" model.

It's likely this seller does not REALLY want to sell the plane.  His wife probably told him to sell it, so he overpriced it hoping it won't sell.  I've seen these deals before, you are wasting your time, he's in love with the plane.

If you really want it bad.  Bypass him and send the offer DIRECTLY to his wife, in writing.