PTK Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 What HF radio do folks use for transoceanic flight? Handheld or panel mount? Do folks buy these or rent? How about antenna mounting considerations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 I don't know if he's on this forum, but Brian Lloyd has a 231 that is set up for transatlantic flight with an HF radio. I'm not sure which one he has, but he would know and is probably as knowledgeable as anyone on the subject. PM me and I can give you his contact info if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 IIRC, you can do the Greenland-Iceland route without a HF radio since you're always with line of sight of a radio transmitter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Piloto has an HF radio and has done quite a few transatlantic flights. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 I use the ICOM 706 MKIIG. It is a multiband transceiver that covers HF VHF and UHF frequencies. With the proper antenna and antenna tuner you can reach Santa Maria LPAZ from the east cost with a 59 signal report. http://ad4c.us/ICOM HF manuals/706 in Mooney4.pdf It is very popular among ferry pilots. Aside from the HF band the VHF band covers aviation, ham radio and marine VHF. See details on the above website José KP4DAC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 What's the Plan, PTK? Going trans-Atlantic? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted October 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 9 hours ago, Piloto said: I use the ICOM 706 MKIIG. It is a multiband transceiver that covers HF VHF and UHF frequencies. With the proper antenna and antenna tuner you can reach Santa Maria LPAZ from the east cost with a 59 signal report. http://ad4c.us/ICOM HF manuals/706 in Mooney4.pdf It is very popular among ferry pilots. Aside from the HF band the VHF band covers aviation, ham radio and marine VHF. See details on the above website José KP4DAC Thank you Jose´. I see this is not available. Do you know what model replaced it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 5TJ Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 The current model Icom IC-7100 is another of the small HF transceivers like the 706. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 1 hour ago, PTK said: Thank you Jose´. I see this is not available. Do you know what model replaced it? It was replaced with the Icom 7000 http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/hf/7000/default.aspx0. It is the same form factor as the 706 but with a color display and more features. Unlike aviation radios these radios are little more complicated to operate due its multimode features. If you are a ham radio operator it would be no problem. The radios can be programmed to specific frequencies and modes so you only need to select a channel number. I have mine programed with the NAT frequencies USB, WLO duplex mode for phone calls. Also have the marine VHF channels programmed and aviation frequencies. They do not have the ITU channel designation but this can be programmed in. The radios are FCC approved and if you have a ham radio license is OK to have it in your plane. On long trips I occasionally chat with hams and boats on HF and VHF. Avoid using the radio microphone they are not noise cancelling. I have my 706 connected to the KMA-24 audio panel on the TEL/HF position. It works the same way as COM1 or COM2 with my ANR headset. José Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradp Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Seems like having marine band frequencies would be a big benefit for over water crossing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 On the marine band radio calls go by the ships name rather than a number. Mine is "Albatros" a friend of mine use "Flying Carpet". José Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccdeuce Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Also interesting use for the HF... In my old helicopters we had HF and as we were flying around in the arabian gulf you could pick up an HF to telephone link. Call home!! I will see if I can remember the frequency and setup for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 1 hour ago, mccdeuce said: Also interesting use for the HF... In my old helicopters we had HF and as we were flying around in the arabian gulf you could pick up an HF to telephone link. Call home!! I will see if I can remember the frequency and setup for it. Check Shipcom (WLO) at: http://www.shipcom.com/services.html. I have used them with very good results. José Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted October 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 9 hours ago, Piloto said: On the marine band radio calls go by the ships name rather than a number. Mine is "Albatros" a friend of mine use "Flying Carpet". José Jose´, I read somewhere that with an antenna tuner the airframe can be the HF antenna. Do you know anything about such a setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, PTK said: Jose´, I read somewhere that with an antenna tuner the airframe can be the HF antenna. Do you know anything about such a setup? The vertical fin on the airliners is used as the radiating element. This can work because of the size of the fin (shunt coupling) and the type of antenna tuner used. https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=antenna+shunt+coupler&qpvt=antenna+shunt+coupler&qpvt=antenna+shunt+coupler&qpvt=antenna+shunt+coupler&FORM=IGRE On small jets there is a wire from the tuner to the top of the vertical fin. These antennas are DC grounded and are less sensitive to static noise when flying at high speed. On small planes I found them to be less efficient at the lower frequencies (below 10 MHz). Also the antenna tuner (SG-237) I use does not handle well DC shorted antennas neither the Icom AH4. The impedance of small shorted antenna at the lower frequencies is too low for these tuners to handle it. http://www.sgcworld.com/237ProductPage.html José Edited October 31, 2016 by Piloto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhop Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 23 minutes ago, Piloto said: The vertical fin on the airliners is used as the radiating element. This can work because of the size of the fin (shunt coupling) and the type of antenna tuner used. https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=antenna+shunt+coupler&qpvt=antenna+shunt+coupler&qpvt=antenna+shunt+coupler&qpvt=antenna+shunt+coupler&FORM=IGRE On small jets there is a wire from the tuner to the top of the vertical fin. These antennas are DC grounded and are less sensitive to static noise when flying at high speed. On small planes I found them to be less efficient at the lower frequencies (below 10 MHz). Also the antenna tuner (SG-237) I use does not handle well DC shorted antennas neither the Icom AH4. The impedance of small shorted antenna at the lower frequencies is too low for these tuners to handle it. http://www.sgcworld.com/237ProductPage.html José Spoken like a true communicator.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted October 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 On 10/29/2016 at 11:12 PM, carusoam said: What's the Plan, PTK? Going trans-Atlantic? Best regards, -a- Yes Anthony! In the early planning phases right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Unlike 40 years ago were HF communications were noisy and intermittent this has changed dramatically. The use of DSP (Digital Signal Processing) on the radios and dual polarization antennas on the ground has made HF as reliable as VHF. If you have a good antenna set-up and use the proper frequencies for day/night operation you would no have any problem reaching the Oceanic centers, even from the ground. José Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 5TJ Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 José What antenna do you use on your Mooney? The old ADF antenna? A trailing wire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Just now, Piloto said: Unlike 40 years ago were HF communications were noisy and intermittent this has changed dramatically. The use of DSP (Digital Signal Processing) on the radios and dual polarization antennas on the ground has made HF as reliable as VHF. If you have a good antenna set-up and use the proper frequencies for day/night operation you would no have any problem reaching the Oceanic centers, even from the ground. José With all of those improvements, does the HF transmission still sound like it's coming from a million miles away? I remember sitting in the jump seat of a QANTAS 747 in the mid 90's and watching the FO make a position report with Hilo. It sounded like Hilo was transmitting from Mars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yvesg Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 If it is SSB then it will sound weird for most. Bandwidth is limited to 3KHz and there could be a bit of tone shift. 73 Ve2 GBK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Most ground HF installations have gone with dual polarization antennas for improved signal. HF was not always SSB but AM (over 50 years ago). AM was very noisy and inefficient specially with vacuum tube radios. The introduction of SSB/USB greatly improved the intelligibility. To avoid the audio tone shift it is imperative to have a XTAL temp. controlled master oscillator in the radio. Frequency must be within 20Hz or better. Unlike a radio in the front panel one located in the tail cone is subject to a wide temp. range. José Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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