Buying a Mooney - have some questions

[smlynarczyk]

Hello all -

Looking to buy a Mooney and have been coast-to-coast after doing lots of online research. (Actually a little depressed as I didn't expect this to be this difficult). Just trying to find a good plane... My focus has been 201s primarily but have also looked at a 252 and a Rocket. I have some questions where I would appreciate some sage input. I want copilot brakes, an autopilot that can hold altitude.

1) A great looking airplane, low time engine and great avionics but I notice a long streak of oil residue on the undercarriage that ran from the front of the engine where it looks like some breather tubes are located toward the back of the plane. Is this normal? I looked into into the engine bay with the oil-check window and noticed some oil at the base of filler tube that might have been the cause but I am suspicious. 

2) On take-off it seemed like the front wheel might have had some shimmy. I did check underneath and noticed that there was (lots of) excess grease in the well. The linkages seemed tight and the pucks looked like they they were newer but am wondering about this.

3) Just got home this evening after checking out a Rocket. Nice solid plane with low time engine, well maintained (Top Gun) but am wondering whether this is the best option or sticking to 252s. Thoughts? Can this really be anything near as economical as an unadulterated Mooney?

4) I have stayed away from anything that has had damage history but there are some otherwise good looking 252s. I spoke with someone at a Mooney shop in Robbinsville NJ who seemed to think a gear-up is no big deal but am still a little hesitant about this. Any thoughts?

5) An alternative is to buy an C or F model that is run out and redo the engine and avionics but this looks like it might not be a wise investment unless I plan this to be my last plane.

Any comments/thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers!

Stan M.

 

[Hank]

A properly repaired gear up is a non-issue. Some discount up to 10% for a recent one! but by 10 years in the past the discount seems to go away. There is usually very little damage other than the prop (duh!), step and belly strobe, and some scratching on the belly panels.

Benefits:  new prop, sometimes of an improved design; IRAN of engine per Lycoming SB, sometimes a full overhaul; often an upgrade to the one-piece belly, a blessing at annual time and for any work down there; the one-piece belly also redoes the internal structure underneath, making it more open. Other inspection/repair work is often done at the same time, "while the plane is in the shop."

A gear up also frightens off some potential,buyers, reducing competition (and thus the lower price).

My C was gear-upped four years before I bought it in 2007. No problems since, and don't expect any related to it to appear. Got a cool, climbing 3-blade prop out of it, with a polished spinner, and I still see 147-148 knots true. Not bad when the book says I should expect 163-165 mph (142-143 knots).

Whatever you plan to buy, get a detailed Pre-Purchase Inspection from a knowledgable Mooney shop, have the seller pay for all Airworthiness items, negotiate all other findings and delivery from it's current home to the inspecting shop. See if he'll fly it there and you send him home on the airlines as a nice split. But first read the logbooks and think about looking at the plane in person,and ask if you can remove any inspection panels and look behind them with a flashlight.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Stan!

you have hit on a bunch of my favorite questions...

1) 201, 252, and Rocket are all great planes.

2) Some people prefer un adulterated planes.  Missile and Rocket (by Rocket Engineering) are at the far end of adulterated).  They have serious engineering and documentation and a following of current owners around here.

3) Gear up landings are usually less critical of a damage history.  The Mooney is designed to be able to handle the stresses involved.  Proper post GU landing is a lot of work that must be done.  Dave's team at Robbinsville is very familiar.  A good PPI will tell you, the buyer, how uneffected the plane is by it's damage history.

4) it is possible that the plane gets a few upgrades with engine OH and new prop and one piece belly panels.  But, somebody somewhere hasn't done the work properly.  That's why you pay for the PPI.  To find these things prior to ownership.

5) There are always people that are going to stay away from a plane with DH. A pristine well cared for plane commands a better price by some. Some people only buy new planes...  other guys are looking for a GU plane and look forward to OHing the engine and getting a new prop.  These guys have real mechanical background.

6) look around here some more.  The C is nice and a few have been incredibly well cared for and upgraded.  The E makes a great retirement plane.  The F is often a great plane for people that need four seats for full sized adults.

7) I put a list around here the other day that separated out all the different mooney models with a simplified price guide.

8) if you have plane ownership experience and OH'd an engine before, go ahead and expand on that experience. If you always sold your Camry when it got to 60k miles on the odometer, seriously consider your interest level for a project like this.

9) Enjoy the hunt.

10) ask a lot of questions.

11) know what a PPI is before shelling out hard earned dollars.

Best regards,

-a-

[Two Oh One]

Welcome aboard Stan! If you've lurked here for any length of time you already know this place is full of knowledgeable, helpful folks with lots of experience.  As far as your search for a plane landing you here, it's highly likely that somewhere in the Mooney lineup you can find a match to your unique combination of needs, desires, and budget.  These planes are remarkable and the fleet is diverse.

With that said, I'll echo so many similar "Help me spend my money" threads and say that you have to provide the forum a little more background if you're looking for specific advice regarding models to search.  The 201, 252, and Rocket are each legendary in their own way, but have unique limitations as well.  The C and F are rock solid as well if that's what your budget allows.  You're right, however, to realize that you'd likely never get your "investment" back out of one of those..

As to your numbered questions:

1) With no info on what particular plane you're looking at and no firsthand look, it's hard to say.  All planes stain their bellies to some extent, and you're right to look toward the crankcase breather tube.  Those tubes blow nasty combustion gases and oil out anytime the engine is running, by design. Obviously it can be excessive due to various issues, but it can be normal too.  Many engines are very apt to quickly blow engine oil overboard once the crankcase is filled beyond a given point, even when filled below book capacity.  My freshly overhauled engine sure does.  It depends.....

2) Hard to say on the Internet. Maybe with more info on the plane someone here may have a guess.

3) Rocket vs 252?  Two great planes with fans all over this site.  Stand by for opinions, or dig a little with "Search."

4) Lots of advice on here about damage history.  I always clicked right past them until a gear up happened to me.  Then I realized what a non-event it can be when properly landed, recovered, repaired, and documented.  My plane is as good and probably better than it was before the incident, and I took lots of photos and kept my damaged parts to help my case someday if I ever have to sell.  But it depends......

5) C vs F vs 201 vs 252/Rocket is a huge gamut of options. Depends on you....

Enjoy the search, and enjoy the forums!

[Yetti]

1-4) are in one class

5) is in another class

Do you want to fly or do you want a project that you spend money on?

There are breather tubes on the engine.   Expect oil to come out of a breather tube.  The tolerances on the 50 year old design are much looser than new design engines.   Hours on cylinders and compression numbers mean more than oil.

[Hank]

Two things to consider when looking at oil on the belly:  1) when was the belly last cleaned? 4 flight hours ago should look good, two years ago will look pretty bad. 2) The Book says that oil capacity is 8 quarts; many engines quickly vent anything over 6 or 6-1/2. When I change my oil, I put in 7 quarts and add one when approaching five, or fill up to 6 for a long trip ( >2 hours, whether one leg or out-and-back trip). I also carry either a full or half quart in the back when traveling, especially if I'm going 3-4 hours away, so I can top off for the return if needed. (Just makes me feel better!)

Enjoy the hunt!

[gsxrpilot]

I almost bought that 252 in Robinsville, NJ.  I still think it would be an excellent airplane. PM me if you want details.

[smlynarczyk]

Thanks everyone for the feedback; this was very helpful. Paul, yes I did look at the 252 in Robinsville and will take you up on the offer to PM you about the 252.

[rbridges]

I love my C, but the 252 and rockets are in a different league IMO. just depends on how much performance you want/need. I consider my C an economy plane that keeps my marriage safe. Lol.