Switching to a different Battery Minder when going Gill->Concorde

[DXB]

At risk of beating a dead horse/battery, here's my recent experience.   My plane came to me just over two years ago with a nearly new Gill G35 wet cell battery, as well as a heavily corroded battery box as a bonus prize.  I paid $$ for a new box plus cleaning up some some corrosion around the box.  I should have just chucked the Gill and gotten a sealed Concorde right then, but I couldn't bring myself to replace a 1 month old battery.  Based on the crappy reputation of the Gill Batteries,  I did get a Battery Minder (S2 model), which basically costs as much as a Gill Battery, and used it dutifully when the plane was at home. I also religiously topped off the H20 in it whenever changing the oil.  I hoped this would extend the life of the battery so it would be reliable for a long time, and so I might make my money back on the charger.  No such luck.  The plane sat 3 weeks in the shop recently.  Now the Gill barely activates the starter, and god help you if you need to crank a second time - it may not turn the prop.  The Battery Minder has not revived it to its prior glory. So if the typical lifespan of a Gill is 2 years, I got 2.1 years on the Battery Minder.   

I just ordered a Concorde RG-35A, but unfortunately this takes a different Battery Minder model (S5 vs S2).  I called the Battery Minder company to request an exchange, and they said that they would reset my device to the higher S5 charging spec for $80 + shipping.  I'm starting to feel like I'm pouring money in a hole.  They did say that my S2 would still benefit my Concorde but can only charge it to about ~90% capacity.  This fella on the Diamond board, who clearly knows more than me, thinks that the added benefit with the S5 may be negligible: https://www.diamondaviators.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5221  Should I just stick with what I got? 

Not trying to bash the Battery Minder folks or anything - it might be a totally legit product despite my experience - I just don't know.  My experience does support what people have already said ad infinitum on here: Gill wet cell batteries are lousy.  

[cnoe]

At risk of beating a dead horse/battery, here's my recent experience.   My plane came to me just over two years ago with a nearly new Gill G35 wet cell battery, as well as a heavily corroded battery box as a bonus prize.  I paid $$ for a new box plus cleaning up some some corrosion around the box.  I should have just chucked the Gill and gotten a sealed Concorde right then, but I couldn't bring myself to replace a 1 month old battery.  Based on the crappy reputation of the Gill Batteries,  I did get a Battery Minder (S2 model), which basically costs as much as a Gill Battery, and used it dutifully when the plane was at home. I also religiously topped off the H20 in it whenever changing the oil.  I hoped this would extend the life of the battery so it would be reliable for a long time, and so I might make my money back on the charger.  No such luck.  The plane sat 3 weeks in the shop recently.  Now the Gill barely activates the starter, and god help you if you need to crank a second time - it may not turn the prop.  The Battery Minder has not revived it to its prior glory. So if the typical lifespan of a Gill is 2 years, I got 2.1 years on the Battery Minder.   
I just ordered a Concorde RG-35A, but unfortunately this takes a different Battery Minder model (S5 vs S2).  I called the Battery Minder company to request an exchange, and they said that they would reset my device to the higher S5 charging spec for $80 + shipping.  I'm starting to feel like I'm pouring money in a hole.  They did say that my S2 would still benefit my Concorde but can only charge it to about ~90% capacity.  This fella on the Diamond board, who clearly knows more than me, thinks that the added benefit with the S5 may be negligible: https://www.diamondaviators.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5221  Should I just stick with what I got? 
Not trying to bash the Battery Minder folks or anything - it might be a totally legit product despite my experience - I just don't know.  My experience does support what people have already said ad infinitum on here: Gill wet cell batteries are lousy.  

How often do you fly? I don't use a battery maintainer at all and my Concorde is 3 years old and going strong on alternator charging alone. And the battery box is clean too.

If it was colder here and I only flew once or twice a month I'd probably invest in one though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[DXB]

Just now, cnoe said:

How often do you fly? I don't use a battery maintainer at all and my Concorde is 3 years old and going strong on alternator charging alone. And the battery box is clean too.
If it was colder here and I only flew once or twice a month I'd probably invest in one though.
 

 

I try to fly at least weekly. My biggest intervals are when it's down for maintenance - like what killed this battery.  And the cold winters here actually help the life of the battery a bit over the heat of Houston.  

[Piloto]

I don't think you need a battery minder with AGM batteries. They do not self discharge as the lead-acid batteries. I only plug in the charger when checking on the avionics. AGM batteries do not freeze in the winter like an old lead-acid battery.

José

[Hank]

I put in a Concorde in Dec '10, and just replaced it before Labor Day '16 not because it was dead but because I was heading to an unattended field with no services and neglible activity, in the mountains, on a holiday weekend, and it was getting noticeably weak; once at the beach in early Aug, in a similar inactive grass field, I thought it wasn't going to turn over. So I was proactive. I moved south from furthest WV to Lower Alabama, and brought the plane down in April '14. Never used any Minder, charger, etc.

I'm very pleased with my Concorde. When I first put it in, I swore it spun the prop fast enough to taxi, but I didn't wait that long this time.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Hank

[DonMuncy]

From listening to the Concorde guy at MAPA, I got the impression the old Battery Minder would do a good job on your new battery .

[Ratherbflying]

My Concorde is three years old last month, never used a Batteryminder, and it is still cranking strong.

[Guest]

Only a few of my customers use a battery minder. During Annual inspection we remove and service all batteries per the applicable battery manual.  We don't seem to replace many, other than for some customers who insist on new ones.

The Odyessy battery in my RV4 is about 9 years old and going strong.

Clarence

[neilpilot]

Recently replaced our Gill G35 wet cell battery with a Concord AGM.  The Gill was still starting us fine but occasionally seemed hesitant.  We often go 2-3 weeks between flights, and never use a charger.

The Gill was 5 years old when replaced.

[LANCECASPER]

10 hours ago, DXB said:

I just ordered a Concorde RG-35A, but unfortunately this takes a different Battery Minder model (S5 vs S2).  I called the Battery Minder company to request an exchange, and they said that they would reset my device to the higher S5 charging spec for $80 + shipping.  I'm starting to feel like I'm pouring money in a hole.  They did say that my S2 would still benefit my Concorde but can only charge it to about ~90% capacity.

For $80 I'd send your Battery Minder in for the update. That last 10% that you get in charge is sometimes the difference you need. You bought the best battery, get the most out of it.

[MyNameIsNobody]

I had same problems with Gill.  F'd up my battery box and went through a couple batteries before upgrading to a Concorde XC.  That battery has never had a tender and just works.  Probably, the battery has benefitted from the Zeftronics install, HID landing light (less drain) and lightweight starter BUT I would NEVER go back to a Gill.  100% satisfied customer.  "Never Mind" the minder

 

[rbridges]

Just my experience, but my Concorde is on its fourth plus year. Based on the date written by the previous owner, the gill made it 3. 12 months ago my IA left my master on during the annual and it was 3 days before I discovered it. He offered to buy a new battery but my $24 float charger from Lowe's got it up and running. This includes a below freezing start in Nashville last winter.  I keep my battery hooked to the Lowe's charger and it still cranks like a champ after nearly 5 years. 

[takair]

i suspect that the increase in voltage is rather negligible and very likely a theoretical engineering value to the battery spec.  It also sounds like you would be on the conservative side.....lower output for the battery, rather than higher. Our alternators don't have the precision of the charger, so there are other factors at play in the health of the battery.  I suspect that this is more of an OCD decision....will it drive you crazy?  Would be nice if the battery minder came in a generic adjustable version. 

[Bartman]

My 2 cents

There may be a benefit to having a Battery Minder with the the desulfation mode and there may be a benefit to matching the charger to the battery.  I'm not sure the battery will benefit from an "upgrade" to the charger, but I am sure the manufacturer of Battery Minder will benefit.... Just sayin.

I am in a particularly suspicious mood today

[ArtVandelay]

Leaving a battery in partially charged state all the time will shorten it's life. If you're flying every couple of weeks you don't need it. I use at $20 harbor freight model when I'm playing with the avionics.

[LANCECASPER]

On 10/24/2016 at 9:34 PM, DXB said:

At risk of beating a dead horse/battery, here's my recent experience.   My plane came to me just over two years ago with a nearly new Gill G35 wet cell battery, as well as a heavily corroded battery box as a bonus prize.  I paid $$ for a new box plus cleaning up some some corrosion around the box.  I should have just chucked the Gill and gotten a sealed Concorde right then, but I couldn't bring myself to replace a 1 month old battery.  Based on the crappy reputation of the Gill Batteries,  I did get a Battery Minder (S2 model), which basically costs as much as a Gill Battery, and used it dutifully when the plane was at home. I also religiously topped off the H20 in it whenever changing the oil.  I hoped this would extend the life of the battery so it would be reliable for a long time, and so I might make my money back on the charger.  No such luck.  The plane sat 3 weeks in the shop recently.  Now the Gill barely activates the starter, and god help you if you need to crank a second time - it may not turn the prop.  The Battery Minder has not revived it to its prior glory. So if the typical lifespan of a Gill is 2 years, I got 2.1 years on the Battery Minder.   

I just ordered a Concorde RG-35A, but unfortunately this takes a different Battery Minder model (S5 vs S2).  I called the Battery Minder company to request an exchange, and they said that they would reset my device to the higher S5 charging spec for $80 + shipping.  I'm starting to feel like I'm pouring money in a hole.  They did say that my S2 would still benefit my Concorde but can only charge it to about ~90% capacity.  This fella on the Diamond board, who clearly knows more than me, thinks that the added benefit with the S5 may be negligible: https://www.diamondaviators.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5221  Should I just stick with what I got? 

Not trying to bash the Battery Minder folks or anything - it might be a totally legit product despite my experience - I just don't know.  My experience does support what people have already said ad infinitum on here: Gill wet cell batteries are lousy.  

Here's a good deal for you - even trade:    https://www.cirruspilots.org/copa/non_member/marketplace/f/13/t/155107.aspx

[DXB]

53 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Here's a good deal for you - even trade:    https://www.cirruspilots.org/copa/non_member/marketplace/f/13/t/155107.aspx

Thank you sir- just contacted the guy.

[xcrmckenna]

I have the Gill 35. Will change out to a concord when it takes a dive. But I would like a battery minder and this is the only S2 that I have found. Is this the right one? http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/batteryminder11-02008.php

[bonal]

Our Concord is going on four years and this winter we have been grounded for weeks at a time I have not put it on a tender or charger and it cranks as well as it did when new. So a tender is not on my list of needed equipment 

[HRM]

I have a Concorde RG35A and I let it 'run low' and then went up to charge it up and weather forced me to cut short my flight. Anyway, I discovered that you need a lot longer than an hour flight to recharge a low battery and you need a different approach. What happens is that when they sit they get sulphated and they need a special recharge to recover from that. The battery will recharge relatively quickly with a charger after getting sulphated, but that is just illusion, it will not retain the depth of stored current that it needs to have because sulphate crystals have formed on the plates.

I use a NOCO Genius G7200 to charge my Concorde as it has an AGM setting. It also has what they call a "boost charge" mode that runs at 16 V. 

After studying the Concorde manual, I found that they recommend a 14 V boost charge to desulphanate, which didn't make much sense to me as the voltage regulator in my Mooney regulates at 13.8 VDC, which would mean I was boost charging all the time. I decided that I had nothing to lose, so I set the NOCO to do the 16 volt boost charge. They said that it could take up to 4 hours. Well, after turning it on I kept watch on the battery, puttered around the hangar, you know. I kept feeling to see if the battery was getting hot, it was a cool day, and I didn't detect any heating. After about an hour and a half I left the hangar to get a coffee, came back after another hour or so, no change. I puttered around a bit more, then went for lunch. By now it had been blinking in 'Boost Mode' for about 2 maybe 2.5 hours. After getting back from lunch it was still boosting. So I sat and watched it for a few minutes and then the boost suddenly cut off indicating that it was done--I am guessing it had been charging for a little over three hours. The battery wasn't warm or anything. I disconnected the charger, waited a few minutes, reconnected it and wham-o, it went through the % charge lights like a rocket and it only does that when the battery is fully charged. So, I think it straightened it out.

The key to battery health is regular use and nice long charge cycles. When my E has a good battery it starts immediately. When the battery has sat for too long it labors to start. I used to have an aviation Battery Minder that I thought would save me during long periods of sitting in the hangar--it didn't. I am convinced that it just dried up the batteries I had it on. I sold it on eBay.

I frankly do not understand all the mystery about aviation batteries vs others. At the end of the day, chemistry and physics are the same, period. The laws are immutable. What 'makes' an aviation battery? Well, it is smaller, more compact, lighter than other vehicle batteries. Yes, the geometry (size and spacing of the plates) affects the charging rates, but after that, it is no different. A 'smart' charger is nothing more than a power supply with controlled voltage and current along with sensing. The charger can alternate between sensing voltage and current and applying voltage and current. These chargers can modulate the applied voltage and even duty cycle the charge and some claim to eliminate or minimize sulphation with this. I think the science is still out on this concept.

[ArtVandelay]

I have the Gill 35. Will change out to a concord when it takes a dive. But I would like a battery minder and this is the only S2 that I have found. Is this the right one? http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/batteryminder11-02008.php

You'll have to switch to the S5 when you get the Concord.

[xcrmckenna]

It will be worth the $80 upgrade I think for when that happens but for now I would like to get a charger since I woke up today to the weather thinking it's December. I'm also planning an avionics upgrade that will take some time and would be nice to have shore power.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk