Cyril Gibb Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 I've been watching the airport closing train wreck unfold between the FAA and the developers. On the one side we have the entire weight of the US federal govt, establised contractual obligations and judicial opinion. On the other side we have power, greed and money. It's pretty clear who's going to win this one. Although I don't like the slimy methods, I have to admire the skillfully executed "death of a thousand cuts" attack by the local politicians. They've outmaneuvered the pro-airport forces like true chess masters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carqwik Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 I used to live in Santa Monica... Wonderful place except for the politicians...they live is some make-believe fairy tale world. As far as the airport goes, it's about the most asinine argument ever by the City...somehow they see it as a playground for the rich while completely failing the recognize the benefit of a large area that has a very low vehicular traffic impact for an area already totally congested. I really hope that the FAA determines that SMO is vital to the national transportation system and simply takes the airport away from the City... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 I keep expecting an early morning "Meigs field job"conducted by City Council ordered city workers....With the Mayor stating.."We did it to protect the children" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 It's a strange place these days. I've worked on the field since the beginning of 2009. The last year has been interesting to say the least. Non aviation tenants have leases but aviation tenants don't. Atlantic Aviation filed a part 16 complaint last month followed by an eviction notice 2 days later. We have tried to pay rent, but the city refuses payment. A city secretary left last Friday after 25 years of service. Just so happens, it was the day after her boss was subpoenaed by the federal government. Just in the last week, UPS deliveries to the hangar have been refused by front desk personnel. They re-keyed all the hangars. They want everyone to reapply for gate access. The list goes on. I'm waiting for the day when they won't let us into our hangar. It's like the Wild Wild West right now. Thanks for thinking about SMO. I hope no one ever deals with such an anti aviation municipality. -Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kortopates Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 I remember reading the complaint filed by Atlantic attorneys recently. I am impressed with its completeness and thorough comprehensive timeline of all the crazy stuff the city has pulled off. Its hard to believe the complaint can't be successful but I know next to nothing about out legal system. But the I hope the attorneys can get the eviction notice to be see as more of the same and preferably get it stopped in time - assuming they are trying to do so. Its a terrible state but I don't admire the city for anything. They have only shown constant and persistent determination to close the airport till users give up and leave. Unfortunately their actions have affected to many peoples livelihoods that could not afford to continue to fight city hall. I hope this isn't the end of Atlantic too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhop Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Wait until they try what Daley did to Meigs field in Chicago... https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2003/march/31/mayor-daley-bulldozes-chicagos-meigs-field-(2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 FAA Hits SMO Evictions By Russ Niles The FAA is demanding proof from the city of Santa Monica that it will be able to legally and safely provide aviation services at Santa Monica Airport now that it has evicted the FBO and flight school on the field. The agency has subpoenaed the city to provide all the relevant documentation (certificates, ratings and endorsements) of all the city employees who will allegedly be filling in for the dozens of employees at Atlantic Aviation and American Flyers, who were told on Sept. 15 they are no longer welcome there. The FAA maintains the city has to keep the airport functional until at least 2023 when obligations relating to federal funding of airport projects run out and that means fixing airplanes, selling fuel and teaching people to fly. The agency issued a laundry list of requirements in the subpoena, demanding that the credentials of “each and every” city employee keeping those services viable be provided to the agency. The city says the FAA action is an “overreach” and the will of the people will be served. “Our priority is putting the community first and exercising our rights as owner and operator of the airport,” Santa Monica Mayor Tony Vazquez told the Los Angeles Times. “Now the FAA is clearly on a fishing expedition to protect Washington special interests who fear losing corporate profits.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 19 hours ago, jonhop said: Wait until they try what Daley did to Meigs field in Chicago... https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2003/march/31/mayor-daley-bulldozes-chicagos-meigs-field-(2) I'm still saddened over this. I read somewhere that medevac flights in the greater Chicago region have seven minute longer response time on average than when Megis was a base of operations. I'm not sure of the validity of this statement, but knowing that the golden hour after a true medical emergency makes a huge difference in life/death/full recovery, to have 7 minutes taken away is a significant factor. I'm curious if any emergency helicopters are based or were based at SMO. -Seth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinwing Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Ok Santa Monica city council...Thinwing can help you..I agree to never land or take off from your airport if you pay me 1 million dollars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 On October 5, 2016 at 2:34 PM, Seth said: I'm still saddened over this. I read somewhere that medevac flights in the greater Chicago region have seven minute longer response time on average than when Megis was a base of operations. I'm not sure of the validity of this statement, but knowing that the golden hour after a true medical emergency makes a huge difference in life/death/full recovery, to have 7 minutes taken away is a significant factor. I'm curious if any emergency helicopters are based or were based at SMO. -Seth None are based directly at the airport. However maybe a fixed wing medical flight per day rolls in. Also a few helicopters Per week, Air Methods, Reach, and a few others are in there with their helicopters. -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooneyflyer Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 Is there any effort to turn PUBLIC OPINION against closing this airport? I'm not talking pilots and airport businesses... I mean businesses and key public figures... just curious. All I read is they cannot close until 2022 (or thereabouts) and there's also the original contract that says the City can never close it... but that doesn't appear to be working... anyone have info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 2023 is when the current grant monies from 2003 expire. The Feds held them to that because that was the most recent/easiest thing they could fall back on to defend the airport. There are several other documents stating the city needs to operate it forever. One Document, The 1948 Instrument, of transfer states that when the airport was given back to the city post war, that they needed to operate the airport in perpetuity. That just means the city will argue to close it forever. The Feds really haven't done anything until now. Atlantics eviction notice should be settled shortly. Wait and see. However, the City's plan is working. After 25 years of operation on the field, the resturant "Typhoon" is closing doors. Their rent just Trippled last week. The last day will be Election Day. -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaV8or Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Basically, the Feds have to decide if they really want this airport to remain open and active. It's clear that the city and a majority of it's inhabitants don't want it, so are the Feds willing defend it by force? I suspect not. It seems to me that the city is calculating that the worst that can happen to them is a fine, or withholding of any federal funds. I'm sure they would be happy to buy their way out because in the end the airport will be closed and they will have the property to redevelop. I personally believe the FAA has no teeth. The city will prevail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotarPilot Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 If there is a major earthquake after it's closed then perhaps the residents will have to wait a lot longer for supplies since they can't be airlifted in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaV8or Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 On October 9, 2016 at 0:35 AM, NotarPilot said: If there is a major earthquake after it's closed then perhaps the residents will have to wait a lot longer for supplies since they can't be airlifted in. I don't think anybody is particularly worried about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Husky Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Went on my first PPL w/ passenger trip there on Sunday I figure it was better to get it off the list now then wait and see what happens. Ate at Typhoon (which i learned is closing in Nov), watched a bunch of students practice landings and slip to landings, then headed back. Weather was amazing and so was the scenery. When I left i took the shoreline until the restricted area then cut back. Overall a great day, only would have been better if i didnt have a head wind both ways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 I was based there for many years, years ago, way before they first put up the big sign on the approach end hill saying- "NO JETS". They lost that one but in the end the airport will close because the city father's see nothing but $$$$$$$ for the property. We called it Moscow West when I was there. Santa Monica city itself is a bastion of way left liberals where if you don't think like they do you're not welcome. Ken Krueger and all the others will be gone and only a footnote in the history of aviation will remain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kortopates Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 I was based there for many years, years ago, way before they first put up the big sign on the approach end hill saying- "NO JETS". They lost that one but in the end the airport will close because the city father's see nothing but $$$$$$$ for the property. We called it Moscow West when I was there. Santa Monica city itself is a bastion of way left liberals where if you don't think like they do you're not welcome. Ken Krueger and all the others will be gone and only a footnote in the history of aviation will remain. Bring politics into it if you must but I sure don't think so. The roots in all of this lie solely with the NIMBY effect. I don't think you can blame the liberals on the land grab that has ensued either. The talk of lead pollution by some locals is just an excuse since their real complaint of noise hasn't worked for them - they are grasping for anything and everything they can short of moving. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 Not trying to blame politics solely but just stating what I know as fact after being raised and having lived in the area for over 45 years and being based on the airport throughout the early days of the disputes. I was there for several decades. Santa Monica has gradually moved way left in politics for 4 decades. The attack on the airport was brought about by noise complaints first, then "safety" was brought into the mix in an effort to expand the negative base. NIMBY does play a part as when the surrounding property becomes so valuable that a level of NEW residents move in that don't want the noise, negative things pick up. Likewise, when the airport was "primarily" a small GA airplane airport it wasn't as obtrusive as it is now with primarily corporate jets. The same transition took place at KVNY over 4 decades. It was the largest, busiest GA airport in the world 50 years ago and now you are hard pressed to find SE GA airplanes there comparatively speaking. Where were all the SE GA airplanes sent? Whiteman Airpark (as it was known in the early days). KVNY didn't want them, they wanted only the gas guzzling blow torches. You used to have a thousand SE GA airplanes on KVNY now you have a thousand jets. The corporate jet boom is what has caused the problem and will be the demise of the airport but the drift to liberal politics has had an effect on the issue, of that there can be no doubt. As i mentioned, we called it "Moscow West" when I was there. Maybe we should blame ol' man Lear for bringing corporate jet travel to Hollywood and starting it all! BTW, I was there then also working for the first Learjet distributor on the west coast AT KVNY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaV8or Posted October 16, 2016 Report Share Posted October 16, 2016 It is a blend of politics, greed and NIMBY. I'll use the example of San Francisco. San Francisco does not have an airport, but it does have freeways that were put in in the '50s, '60s and '70s. It was a supposed natural thing as other cities around the country did the same. However a true network of freeways was never achieved and the ability t pass through the city, or reach it's outer neighborhoods by freeway never materialized. Why? Because San Francisco might just well be the birth place of the NIMBYs. Ever since the Loma Prieta earthquake there, they have been tearing freeways down. I know no other city like that in America. Here is a public transportation system used by nearly all, that they are dismantling and they have plans to go even further. Why? They found that neighborhoods that had freeways running through them rebounded from low income, crime ridden places and became vibrant, even trendy and desirable once the freeways were removed. A big plus for the city in terms of taxes collected, but also the developers and land owners. I have no idea how much, but loads and loads of money has been made out of this. To help sell the idea of making San Francisco an even worse place to drive a car, they used left leaning politics that are popular there. Themes of reducing environmental pollution, excessive energy consumption and the promise of additional public transit to ease the pain was and still is appealing there. Ironically, the city finds itself now with a serious lack of affordable housing, something the homes by the freeway provided. I see San Francisco as a blue print that the folks running Santa Monica are following as to how to turn old 20th century public transportation systems into city profits and get their city closer to a perceived superior European model of how a city should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotarPilot Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 On 10/16/2016 at 0:24 PM, DaV8or said: It is a blend of politics, greed and NIMBY. I'll use the example of San Francisco. San Francisco does not have an airport, but it does have freeways that were put in in the '50s, '60s and '70s. It was a supposed natural thing as other cities around the country did the same. However a true network of freeways was never achieved and the ability t pass through the city, or reach it's outer neighborhoods by freeway never materialized. Why? Because San Francisco might just well be the birth place of the NIMBYs. Ever since the Loma Prieta earthquake there, they have been tearing freeways down. I know no other city like that in America. Here is a public transportation system used by nearly all, that they are dismantling and they have plans to go even further. Why? They found that neighborhoods that had freeways running through them rebounded from low income, crime ridden places and became vibrant, even trendy and desirable once the freeways were removed. A big plus for the city in terms of taxes collected, but also the developers and land owners. I have no idea how much, but loads and loads of money has been made out of this. To help sell the idea of making San Francisco an even worse place to drive a car, they used left leaning politics that are popular there. Themes of reducing environmental pollution, excessive energy consumption and the promise of additional public transit to ease the pain was and still is appealing there. Ironically, the city finds itself now with a serious lack of affordable housing, something the homes by the freeway provided. I see San Francisco as a blue print that the folks running Santa Monica are following as to how to turn old 20th century public transportation systems into city profits and get their city closer to a perceived superior European model of how a city should be. I've been to SF once in 1999. I have two distinctive memories of the place: 1. Place smelled like a toilet. 2. I will not say as not to offend anyone. I have no plans to ever revisit that city. If I never go back it'll be too soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotarPilot Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 On 10/7/2016 at 1:32 PM, MB65E said: 2023 is when the current grant monies from 2003 expire. The Feds held them to that because that was the most recent/easiest thing they could fall back on to defend the airport. There are several other documents stating the city needs to operate it forever. One Document, The 1948 Instrument, of transfer states that when the airport was given back to the city post war, that they needed to operate the airport in perpetuity. That just means the city will argue to close it forever. The Feds really haven't done anything until now. Atlantics eviction notice should be settled shortly. Wait and see. However, the City's plan is working. After 25 years of operation on the field, the resturant "Typhoon" is closing doors. Their rent just Trippled last week. The last day will be Election Day. -Matt What's the latest on the status of Atlantic and American Flyers? I think I read they had to be out by Oct 15th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 The Feds delayed their decision until 11/4. The city thinks they can spool up their own services, hire and train people in 2 months. (Fuelers, linemen, certified towing staff, flight instructors, front desk.) further eviction notices have been postponed. -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaV8or Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 46 minutes ago, MB65E said: The Feds delayed their decision until 11/4. The city thinks they can spool up their own services, hire and train people in 2 months. (Fuelers, linemen, certified towing staff, flight instructors, front desk.) further eviction notices have been postponed. -Matt Great. I'm sure that will be some very fine, competitively priced services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964-M20E Posted November 3, 2016 Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 Andrew You're correct my plane is a car with wings. I use it to travel for pleasure and sometimes for work. It gets me form A to B. Except for yesterday I just went up and had some fun for about 40 minutes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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