Cleveland Wheel & Brake Paint

[MB65E]

Hi, So I'm in the process of "restoring" some Cleveland wheel &  brake parts. In the past (10 years ago) I remember purchasing the paint that Cleveland uses on their components. In their Component manual it mentions all sorts of good stuff, except no mention of the silver paint they use.   High end Automotive paint is mentioned in the CMM. I thought I purchased it from aircraft spruce, however it's no longer listed. 

Any help would be great. TemPco sells a high temp "alumnium color" paint... Wondering how close that would be to the factory silver color?

I'm not ruling out white yet either.  

Thoughts?

Thanks!!

-Matt

 

[jetdriven]

That stuff is magnesium and is hell to work with. Don't blast it, strip it. Apply PreKote twice to the part and rinse ridiculously well until it's super clean. Then bake in an oven at 250 for an hour to drive the water out. Mag absorbs water like a sponge. Then epoxy primer and paint. I used 2K Nason epoxy primer and Nason Full-thane 2k urethane. Bake again at 250 overnight.  Did my wheels 3 years ago they still look new. 

Edited September 15, 2016 by jetdriven

[mike20papa]

Where is the Nason paint (readily) available?  Byron, you planning to go to Critter's Lodge Fly-in?  Joe

[XXX]

5 hours ago, jetdriven said:

That stuff is magnesium and is hell to work with. Don't blast it, strip it. Apply PreKote twice to the part and rinse ridiculously well until it's super clean. Then bake in an oven at 250 for an hour to drive the water out. Mag absorbs water like a sponge. Then epoxy primer and paint. I used 2K Nason epoxy primer and Nason Full-thane 2k urethane. Bake again at 250 overnight.  Did my wheels 3 years ago they still look new. 

Byron,  Can magnesium be powder coated? Seems it would hold up better than paint if so. 

 

Steve

[MB65E]

Thanks Byron. That's exactly how the vintage Ferrari guys do their old cast champ wheels. I bet all the Porsche guys are the same. They use Alodine on the magnesium too. 

Thanks again!

-Matt 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

There is a conversion coating for magnesium. It would be the best thing to use, I use zinc chromate and it works well. you can still get it West marine.

This is what you should use:

http://www.skygeek.com/henkel-598970-alodine-magnesium-treatment-kit.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_content=henkel-598970-alodine-magnesium-treatment-kit&utm_campaign=froogle&gclid=CMHZm4K-kc8CFUiPfgodKfoCbg

But don't buy it from Sky Geek...

The problem is adhesion and corrosion under the paint. Just because you put on a great paint or powder coat doesn't mean it won't release from underneath. 

[carusoam]

Now that the tech details have been covered...

Now for the color...

White?  Fine Brake dust has the ability to stick to everything nearby.  This will make them always look dirty.

Brake dust on a silver surface appears less shiny to the casual observer.

 

Then again, you guys probably don't use your brakes and still hit the first turn-off...

Best regards,

-a-

[MB65E]

Haha, and when I cover them up with my polished wheel covers, I'll be the only one that knows how nice they look underneath. 

Thanks guys,

-Matt

[jetdriven]

Magnadyne is chromic acid, it's the equivalent of alodine for magnesium but is health hazardous stuff.  Google what hexavalent chromium (Chromium-6) does to you.

 PreKote is s kind of supersoap, and takes the place of acid etch and chromic acid.  I was hesitant but tried it. I recommend it, it's water soluble and non-hazardous but paint sticks and lasts. 

[geoffb]

hex chrome isn't really an issue unless you heat Chromium like in a welding process

[mooniac15u]

7 minutes ago, geoffb said:

hex chrome isn't really an issue unless you heat Chromium like in a welding process

That's not quite true. You are talking about starting with some other oxidation state like metallic chromium. The chromium in chromic acid is already hexavalent. 

[jetdriven]

On September 15, 2016 at 1:28 PM, mike20papa said:

Where is the Nason paint (readily) available?  Byron, you planning to go to Critter's Lodge Fly-in?  Joe

O'reilly auto stores often have a paint mix department. Also, Finishmaster is a body shop supply company you can buy it from. If none of those are near, Google "body shop supply" or "paint supply" Napa also has a urethane paint product but there are better choices.  It doesn't have to be Nason Full-thane, but it really needs to be a 2-part (2K) urethane paint.  Lacquer and acrylic enamel can't stand the heat. Also, spray paint etc is not weatherproof.  When moisture gets under the coating the film form corrosion begins, and magnesium is very susceptible to corrosion. 

Im planning on critters lodge, Joe. See you there.  Bring that nice wood wing out. All that work I did to mine and your wing is still smoother. 

Edited September 18, 2016 by jetdriven

[geoffb]

Thanks for the correction.  So when dealing with chromic acid, or other solutions involving chromium, do you need to take precautions to prevent skin contact and inhalation?  We do a huge amount of stainless welding in my work, so we live engineering controls for those processes.

 

Geoff

[jetdriven]

If you use PreKote you can skip the acid and conversion coating. I did that to my mag wheels, and primed with epoxy primer, then painted.  Cr+6 is found in alodine, chromic acid, and in zinc chromate and strontium/chromate primers.  Take every possible precaution to not breathe the overspray of this and do not sand it. Most people don't give a care but if you read how bad this stuff it, it will come back to take your golden years away. 

[N201MKTurbo]

I was curious about the dangers of chromates so I just did a little web search. While there are hazards with long term exposure, most of the studies I saw were looking at people who were exposed to high concentrations on a daily basis for years. It looks like spraying a little zinc chromate while wearing gloves and a respirator or alodining an aircraft wheel while wearing gloves presents very little risk.

If you have any more information I would be glad to read it.

[carusoam]

How about something specific to GA, with a resource like OSHA?

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA_FS-3650_Aerospace_Paint.pdf

There were a couple of different types of exposures mentioned in their other documents.  One of them was specific to Hot work. (Welding). The safety issue is similar, but doesn't make non-hot type of work perfectly safe.

Of course OSHA seems to be using a drawing of a fiberglass plane in their airflow example. Not sure why an anti corrosion coating would be used on a complete airframe that is mostly plastic..?

Best regards,

-a-

[N201MKTurbo]

39 minutes ago, carusoam said:

How about something specific to GA, with a resource like OSHA?

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA_FS-3650_Aerospace_Paint.pdf

There were a couple of different types of exposures mentioned in their other documents.  One of them was specific to Hot work. (Welding). The safety issue is similar, but doesn't make non-hot type of work perfectly safe.

Of course OSHA seems to be using a drawing of a fiberglass plane in their airflow example. Not sure why an anti corrosion coating would be used on a complete airframe that is mostly plastic..?

Best regards,

-a-

Ok, but this shows an industrial operation with people working day in and day out around large volumes of the stuff. Quite a bit different then a guy with a rattle can out behind the shop.

[mooniac15u]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I was curious about the dangers of chromates so I just did a little web search. While there are hazards with long term exposure, most of the studies I saw were looking at people who were exposed to high concentrations on a daily basis for years. It looks like spraying a little zinc chromate while wearing gloves and a respirator or alodining an aircraft wheel while wearing gloves presents very little risk.

If you have any more information I would be glad to read it.

Exposure risks are difficult to quantify for an individual.  The best we can do is study large enough populations to get a general idea of risks based on levels and duration of exposure.  The carcinogenic aspects of hexavalent chromium do seem to be tied mostly to long-term exposure.  The risk increases with both the level and duration of exposure.  Is a single instance of using a spray can of chromate paint in a well ventilated area likely to cause long-term problems?  Probably not.  Is drinking chromate contaminated water every day for years likely to cause problems? Yes.  Everything else is somewhere in between.  The safest plan is to avoid exposure completely.

Chromic acid also has a separate acute exposure hazard not directly related to the other chromium exposure issues.  Chromic acid is highly oxidative and poses a significant hazard for dermal and respiratory exposure.  The same property that makes it so good at forming metal oxides makes it hazardous to biological systems like humans.

[Martin S.]

Evening gents,

questions to those of you who "overhauled" their wheels. Did you overhaul the wheels with removed bearings? Also, on my wheels there's a small sticker/badge with the wheels type and parts number. I'd like to conserve that thing during the overhaul. Wondering whether sticking some kind of tape on it would be sufficient to protect it?

Greets,

 

Martin

[Pinecone]

On 9/16/2016 at 11:22 AM, geoffb said:

hex chrome isn't really an issue unless you heat Chromium like in a welding process

Nope.

Hazardous as a dust or mist and inhaled.

[A64Pilot]

20 hours ago, Martin S. said:

Evening gents,

questions to those of you who "overhauled" their wheels. Did you overhaul the wheels with removed bearings? Also, on my wheels there's a small sticker/badge with the wheels type and parts number. I'd like to conserve that thing during the overhaul. Wondering whether sticking some kind of tape on it would be sufficient to protect it?

Greets,

 

Martin

By bearings I assume you mean the races.

I would remove them and go to great extents to completely degrease the wheels.

Way back in the 80’s we painted wheels in the Army with Imron with excellent results, Imron was one of the first two part paints I believe and there are health issues spraying it, maybe better paints now. I would stick with a two part paint though, probably a polyurethane, don’t think I would use a rattle can if I wanted the best results

Never thought about powder coat, quite possibly the best, but likely magnesium may corrode under the coating, that’s the issue I believe. Never had a problem with Army wheels, but they were stripped and repainted on a calendar schedule though, brake dust was thought to be the worst cause of corrosion, so keeping them clean may help.

[Fly Boomer]

Thought I saw a post in this topic regarding a "technician's" guide from Cleveland, but I can't find it now.  I found a bad copy online and extracted the following table of colors and providers of recommended paint:

                Columbia Paint Corp.        Sherwin Williams
                Cleveland, OH               Huntington, WV
  COLOR         Ph: 304 529 3237            www.sherwin-williams.com

White Paint     18-017A (Gray Primer)       P60G2 (Primer)
                11-358A (524 Gloss White)   F63W13 (White)

Silver Paint    18-017A (Gray Primer)       P60G2 (Primer)
                17-250A (524 Aluminum)      F63BXS58-4337 (Silver)

Silver Paint    18-017A (Gray Primer) or    P60G2 (Primer)
(brake discs)   12-231A (Dk Gray Primer)
                17-250A (524 Aluminum)      F63BXS58-4337 (Silver)
 

[PT20J]

From the Cleveland Technician’s Service Guide…

[Guest]

On 11/16/2022 at 1:18 PM, Martin S. said:

Evening gents,

questions to those of you who "overhauled" their wheels. Did you overhaul the wheels with removed bearings? Also, on my wheels there's a small sticker/badge with the wheels type and parts number. I'd like to conserve that thing during the overhaul. Wondering whether sticking some kind of tape on it would be sufficient to protect it?

Greets,

 

Martin

We refinished a set of wheels for a client’s Beechcraft Baron.  He contacted Cleveland tech support, who sent him new labels for all three wheels.

[PT20J]

13 hours ago, M20Doc said:

We refinished a set of wheels for a client’s Beechcraft Baron.  He contacted Cleveland tech support, who sent him new labels for all three wheels.

What paint and pre-treatments did you use?