Mooney Newbie Question

[Jpflysdfw]

So I've started researching across the various M20 models, as I comtemplate aircraft ownership at some point down the road. From most reading, it seems the general consensus is flying/handling characteristics are relatively consistent across the models, with speed and goodies being the biggest differentiators. I ran across this model comparison and was quite surprised at the range difference noted (300nm) between and F and a J.  I know Roy L did a number of aero mods to the J but wanted to ask the experts whether this is real world for range b/t the two models?  For equivalent range, it says the F would burn a bit over 23 gals of additional fuel with effectively the same GW and UL. Seems considerably higher than I would have imagined.  Thoughts?

http://www.lasar.com/userfiles/file/mooney-model-comparison.pdf

[Hank]

If you fly LOP, the ranges and speeds will be much closer. This chart shows > 12 gph for the F, but LOP they can run 8-9 gph at 8000-10,000 msl, just a little slower. Js will run a little bit faster at very similar LOP fuel burn.

[Jpflysdfw]

Very Helpful, thanks Hank.

Jeff

[ArtVandelay]

I assume that chart has a typo in the Fs climb, pretty sure they dont climb 300fpm faster than a J given they are the same weight.  There might be other mistakes.

[GeorgePerry]

2 hours ago, Jpflysdfw said:

So I've started researching across the various M20 models, as I comtemplate aircraft ownership at some point down the road. From most reading, it seems the general consensus is flying/handling characteristics are relatively consistent across the models, with speed and goodies being the biggest differentiators. I ran across this model comparison and was quite surprised at the range difference noted (300nm) between and F and a J.  I know Roy L did a number of aero mods to the J but wanted to ask the experts whether this is real world for range b/t the two models?  For equivalent range, it says the F would burn a bit over 23 gals of additional fuel with effectively the same GW and UL. Seems considerably higher than I would have imagined.  Thoughts?

http://www.lasar.com/userfiles/file/mooney-model-comparison.pdf

Start with your budget, then determine your mission.  Those two variables will likely help you determine which model.

[carusoam]

To select a proper Mooney,

- determine who is going to sit in the back,

 - how long the trip is going to be

- how mountainous/treacherous the terrain is going to be below.

- Will the plane be VFR or IFR capable?

 

Lopresti did make real world improvements in speed by the use of aerodynamics.

José Monroy made real world improvements in duration by increasing fuel capacity.  Saving many of us the time involved to stop for fuel along the way.

There is another name I'll have to look up...  Made real world improvements to climb and T/O performance by increasing HP.  (Steven757 usually helps me with this memory)

A fourth group of people brought us TNs and inter coolers.... (Often used on M20Fs)

Jim Cancil made real life outdoor storage possible by building custom fit covers without the custom price.

 

These few modifications have made our  Moonies faster and more efficient...

Fun stuff you learn along the way at MS...

Best regards,

-a-

[TTaylor]

Real world numbers as stated above are about 140 knots (F) vs. 150 knots (J) at 9 gph.  You can calculate the cost differences from those numbers.  The range comes down to which tanks you have and how long do you want to fly.  Both F and J can be fitted with long range tanks.  

As carusoam stated the rest is about mission.  How many you are carrying, how high you need to go and IFR or VFR.   

Also, you don't have to own a plane by yourself.  Partnerships can allow you to reduce the cost of ownership significantly. 

[Patto]

Glad I'm not the only newbie on here!

[Jpflysdfw]

Thanks guys, so far I've found all the info and responses have been very helpful here on MS. While I will mostly plan for VFR, I do want to have a decent IFR platform.  Purchase cost is not my primary concern, I am more interested in recurring cost to own/operate.  My range question was really less about range, as I expect most trips will be under 650nm each way and seldom in mountainous areas, though occasionally. It was more about the same fuel qty (64gal) yelding potentially +300nm which would equate to significantly better fuel economy.  It sounds from this feedback that that is appreciably overstated and while there is slightly better fuel performance in J's, it is not nearly as drastic as the chart indicates.

carusoam, great historical data, thanks! I actually had to Google Jim Cancil, now I have another resource for goodies!!

Jeff

[Guitarmaster]

Thanks guys, so far I've found all the info and responses have been very helpful here on MS. While I will mostly plan for VFR, I do want to have a decent IFR platform.  Purchase cost is not my primary concern, I am more interested in recurring cost to own/operate.  My range question was really less about range, as I expect most trips will be under 650nm each way and seldom in mountainous areas, though occasionally. It was more about the same fuel qty (64gal) yelding potentially +300nm which would equate to significantly better fuel economy.  It sounds from this feedback that that is appreciably overstated and while there is slightly better fuel performance in J's, it is not nearly as drastic as the chart indicates.

carusoam, great historical data, thanks! I actually had to Google Jim Cancil, now I have another resource for goodies!!

Jeff

I think the difference is closer to 70 miles.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Ragsf15e]

Both models have enough gas for 6+ hours... You probably don't want to sit in them for more than 4.  If your mission is less than ~550nm, an F would be fine. To be honest, at 3 hours into the flight you'll be wishing for a J so you can get there 10 minutes faster. I have an F, it's great, but we'll always want more speed.  If you can afford the purchase price of a nice J, go for it.  Maintenance between the two will be about the same.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Ragsf15e

[Browncbr1]

Depending on which company owned mooney at the time, the published performance numbers were embellished by varying degrees. If I recall correctly, subtract 10-15 kts from 70's and later numbers.