M20F cruise speed

[Mleahy]

What cruise speed should I expect in my 67 F model?

I have had the plane 7 years it has the 201 windshield and Hartzell scimitar top prop two blade. I run at 24" and 2450 rpm. I only get 140 knots. Does that sound right? Reman engine has 500hrs. Again it's a 67F fuel burn 11 gph. Usually fly 5-7000 ft

Edited just now by Mleahy

 

 

Edited August 22, 2016 by Mleahy

[Marauder]

What cruise speed should I expect in my 67 F model?

Depends on mods. My 75F with mods (201 windshield, gap seals, cowl enclosure, etc.) will do 150 KTAS all day.

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[MARZ]

I usually see 150 kts (170ish mph) but I plan 140

[1964-M20E]

My F has most if not all speed mods and I plan for 145kts ground speed and it usually works out pretty close there and back on average.

 

 

[Ron McBride]

My 69F has many speed mods, looks like 148 knots TAS.   1500 hrs on engine, old style prop.

Ron

[Marauder]

I forgot to add when I have Dave's mod installed, I will gain 39 KTAS, right Matt?!

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[Bob_Belville]

Just now, Marauder said:

I forgot to add when I have Dave's mod installed, I will gain 39 KTAS, right Matt?!

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Still peddling that TAS pic of the Aspen? The one that also shows climb of -700 fpm?

[Hank]

I followed a friend in an F model once for almost an hour. Had him in sight until he descended near pattern altitude, lost him in ground clutter--it's a pretty small target from behind . . .

My C is pretty much a 140-knot machine.

[MyNameIsNobody]

I hate these threads because posters rarely discuss their altitude/power settings and fuel burn.  My question is why don't you include this for reference?  It takes the "magic out".

[Mleahy]

I have had the plane 7 years it has the 201 windshield and Hartzell scimitar top prop two blade. I run at 24" and 2450 rpm. I only get 140 knots. Does that sound right? Reman engine has 500hrs. Again it's a 67F fuel burn 11 gph. Usually fly 5-7000 ft

Edited August 22, 2016 by Mleahy

[Danb]

20 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I forgot to add when I have Dave's mod installed, I will gain 39 KTAS, right Matt?!

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Would that be the kerosine type

[Marauder]

Just now, Marauder said: I forgot to add when I have Dave's mod installed, I will gain 39 KTAS, right Matt?!

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Still peddling that TAS pic of the Aspen? The one that also shows climb of -700 fpm?

Not me! My photoshop skills have gotten better.

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[Marauder]

20 minutes ago, Marauder said: I forgot to add when I have Dave's mod installed, I will gain 39 KTAS, right Matt?!

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Would that be the kerosine type

Heck no!

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[Browncbr1]

i run my 67F usually at 23" 2300rpm down low (~65%) 25LOP and I get 138ktas when loaded up heavy, but 147ktas if its just me and half fuel.   up high, I'll increase rpm to compensate for lost MAP.  

Fuel burn ends up being about 7.5gph in cruise either way.  some people run them harder, but I'm going for longevity.  That extra 5ktas seems to demand so much more from the engine. 

I don't have any speed mods.. oem windshield, etc.

Edit; forgot to mention I have a clean top prop that I continually keep clean.  Also, condition of paint, wax, and cleanliness of the plane will probably have a greater effect than speed mods imo 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Browncbr1

[N201MKTurbo]

My old F only had one speed mod which was a Laser cowl closure. It almost hit book values. At 6500 2500 RPM and full throttle it would do 152 KTS. If I shoved all the knobs in it would do 167 KTS.

I attribute that speed to messing with the rigging for a couple of years.

[TTaylor]

4 hours ago, Mleahy said:

What cruise speed should I expect in my 67 F model?

I have had the plane 7 years it has the 201 windshield and Hartzell scimitar top prop two blade. I run at 24" and 2450 rpm. I only get 140 knots. Does that sound right? Reman engine has 500hrs. Again it's a 67F fuel burn 11 gph. Usually fly 5-7000 ft

Edited just now by Mleahy

These numbers sound low to me.   I fly a mostly stock 75 F,  it has a few seals and a three blade prop.  I plan for 139 knots at 8.8 gal/hr at 10,000 feet running 2500 rpm.  At western altitudes (9 to 13 K) I don't look at manifold pressure.
 

 

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[LevelWing]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

I followed a friend in an F model once for almost an hour. Had him in sight until he descended near pattern altitude, lost him in ground clutter--it's a pretty small target from behind . . .

My C is pretty much a 140-knot machine.

Mine will also do 140kts though I plan for 130kts. I have the cowl enclosure mod as well, which helps.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, LevelWing said:

Mine will also do 140kts though I plan for 130kts. I have the cowl enclosure mod as well, which helps.

I have that, too. My 201 windshield is offset by the Hartzell 3-blade.

Reading all of this makes me rethink the F as just a C with extra backseat legroom, hauled around by the hard-to-hot-start IO engine . . .

[Jerry 5TJ]

My C would do about 152 KTAS at 8000' WOT and 2400 rpm.  That is the speed I computed reading the indicated air speed and correcting for temperature & altitude.  

Funny thing, tho,  the GPS always showed about 140-142 KTAS in 3-way speed checks under those conditions.

I assume the ASI, uncalibrated since 1965, might be off a tad.   Or maybe GPS is lying.  

PS   I thought my "E" (based on 8 years of ownership) was horrid to start hot.  I'd rather have a root canal done, almost, than try a restart 30 minutes after shut down.  Just sayin.   

 

[N201MKTurbo]

3 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

You have posted this many times, Hank, and I have been meaning to ask you about it.  What has it been about your experience with IO-360s to leads you to believe that they are universally hard to start hot?  Just curious.

Jim

I think he has IO envy.

[Jerry 5TJ]

1 minute ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I think he has IO envy.

No, he remembers how hard it is to start hot.  As do I.  

If the hot start procedure in my E worked first time, great!  Otherwise, I found it  best to just get out and go have another cup of coffee. 

I tried everyone's pet hot start technique.  Sorry, none guaranteed anything but random outcome.   I finally fixed the problem -- I sold the plane.  

Once  it was running, tho, that IO-360-A1A was a great little engine.  

 

 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

Just now, Jerry 5TJ said:

No, he remembers how hard it is to start hot.  As do I.  

If the hot start procedure in my E worked first time, great!  Otherwise, I found it  best to just get out and go have another cup of coffee. 

I tried everyone's pet hot start technique.  Sorry, none guaranteed anything but random outcome.   I finally fixed the problem -- I sold the plane.  

Once  it was running, tho, that IO-360-A1A was a great little engine.  

 

 

 

Huh, I have owned a Mooney with an IO-360 for 32 years. I could start both of them any time any place.

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

I have that, too. My 201 windshield is offset by the Hartzell 3-blade.

Reading all of this makes me rethink the F as just a C with extra backseat legroom, hauled around by the hard-to-hot-start IO engine . . .

I'm with Turbo on this one. It is only hard to start until you learn how to start it hot. I will admit I surrendered a few times in my first year of ownership until I was taught how to start it hot. I had been using that hot start technique for years until I saw Maxwell's YouTube video. His technique works as well.

[Jerry 5TJ]

Ok, I understand.

But my E was a beast to start hot. If I still had it Ivwould let you guys try your hand.

 

[N601RX]

If the shower of sparks is weak it will be difficult to start. Replacing the points and condenser in it as well as adjusting it to the mag made all the difference in the world.  I suspect many of these have never been looked at. I don't think mine had until a few years ago.