M20C 48 gallon tanks usable fuel

[cnoe]

1 minute ago, orionflt said:

I have a 1962 C with the same tanks, I have run my tanks dry to check what my unusable fuel is and I found that on my plane I was down to about 1 gallon total. I later reverified this accidentally while doing a cross country flight. it was to a destination I had traveled to several times before and always landed with plenty of reserve, but this time the head winds were stronger and my fuel burn was in higer then I estimated (no engine monitor at the time). to top it off one of my fuel gauges failed between a1/4 and 1/8 tank making me believe my timing and fuel calculations were correct . just before entering the pattern at my destination the tank I was on started to run dry (planned), I swapped over to my other tank for landing as planned estimated (6 gallons), as i got abeam of the departure end of the runway my fuel pressure started fluxing, I called an emergency and turned into the runway. the engine quit.... I swapped tanks and set up for landing, the engine refired for a few minutes then quit again on short final. I rolled out safely, refired the engine and taxied to the fuel pumps.....i took 48 gallons. I definitely do not recommend verifying your useable fuel this way, but running one tank down until the pressure fluctuations will give you a good idea of your usable fuel per tank. since that adventure I have added an engine monitor, replaced my gauges and sender (part of the new monitor). I also use 2 gallons as my unusable fuel number just to give me some leeway.

 

Brian

Now THAT doesn't sound pleasant. Like StinkBug said above I'd rather have one "empty" tank than two "nearly empty" tanks. I follow my POH and keep a minimum of 8 gallons in each. 

And as Bob said, banking in the pattern concerns me too when low on fuel. If you're going to run a tank dry (either accidentally or on purpose) PLEASE do it with plenty of altitude under your wings.

[orionflt]

Just now, Bob_Belville said:

That's tops my dubious record of putting 50.2 in a 52 usable rental Mooney G. 

Wasn't my intentions to set a record, and I will definitely not try to duplicate it! 

[cnoe]

Just now, Bob_Belville said:

That's tops my dubious record of putting 50.2 in a 52 usable rental Mooney G. 

My record fill-up was 53.8 gallons in 64 usable tanks. Even with 10.2 gallons remaining I wasn't exactly comfortable.

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, orionflt said:

Wasn't my intentions to set a record, and I will definitely not try to duplicate it! 

As I've stated elsewhere, I doubt I've ever landed with less than 10 gallons on board since. A "licence to learn" implies we actually learn something from our screw ups.

[RLCarter]

My E has a history of off field landings (2) and one fuel starvation after Take-off, all of which was before me. if you are going to push your reserves plan ahead so that the wing with fuel will be raised during pattern turns to reduce the risk of sucking air and seat covers. I subscribe to the theory of the only time you can have too much fuel onboard is when your on fire.

[gsxrpilot]

In my previous airplane, 6XM, I had the GEM G2 with FF. I learned over several long flights that running the GEM up to 26 gal used in either tank left just over 2 gal in the tank. In other words, if the GEM said I'd burned 26 gal, at fill up, the tank would only take 23.5 or so.  After verifying this for each tank over several flights, I got to be very comfortable running one tank to 0 according to the GEM and running the second tank down to 5 or so.  My personal record was landing with the GEM showing Left 0 and Right 3.8 gal remaining. But at fill up, we couldn't get more that 43.5 gal back into the tanks. So actually very comfortable reserves. 

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, RLCarter said:

My E has a history of off field landings (2) and one fuel starvation after Take-off, all of which was before me. if you are going to push your reserves plan ahead so that the wing with fuel will be raised during pattern turns to reduce the risk of sucking air and seat covers. I subscribe to the theory of the only time you can have too much fuel onboard is when your on fire.

I'd sure rather take off 60# over gross than leave 10 gallons out on a nominal 3 hour flight. 

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

In my previous airplane, 6XM, I had the GEM G2 with FF. I learned over several long flights that running the GEM up to 26 gal used in either tank left just over 2 gal in the tank. In other words, if the GEM said I'd burned 26 gal, at fill up, the tank would only take 23.5 or so.  After verifying this for each tank over several flights, I got to be very comfortable running one tank to 0 according to the GEM and running the second tank down to 5 or so.  My personal record was landing with the GEM showing Left 0 and Right 3.8 gal remaining. But at fill up, we couldn't get more that 43.5 gal back into the tanks. So actually very comfortable reserves. 

I'm sure you know there's a K factor you can change to make the FF very accurate. 

That reminds me of my mother, dead 45 years now, who set her clocks 10 minutes fast and then would tell herself she had 10 minutes 'cause the clock was fast. She'd still be late. My recollection is that over the years the clock got moved up and up until it was 30 minutes fast. 

[RLCarter]

Just now, Bob_Belville said:

I'd sure rather take off 60# over gross than leave 10 gallons out on a nominal 3 hour flight. 

I know a DPE that said that exact thing in an FAA seminar, they suspended his privelages for 6 months and required additional training. 

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, RLCarter said:

I know a DPE that said that exact thing in an FAA seminar, they suspended his privelages for 6 months and required additional training. 

Truth telling has its risks.

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, RLCarter said:

I know a DPE that said that exact thing in an FAA seminar, they suspended his privelages for 6 months and required additional training. 

I'll rephrase that for the record "I'd rather hear about someone taking off 60# over gross than hear she ran out of fuel with the plane comfortably inside the W&B envelope."

[cnoe]

Just now, Bob_Belville said:

Truth telling has its risks.

Like that time you flew under the Gateway Arch in St. Louis? 

[Bob_Belville]

Kidding aside, how many folks get hurt and planes get bent due to fuel exhaustion vs. over gross takeoffs?

Just asking. Flame away.

 

[cnoe]

Around here... none. In Colorado... maybe a few. But I agree with your premise.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[RLCarter]

lol, big brother might be reading as well

[carusoam]

A: Too many...

One of the first O accidents on record was a legal ferry flight.  Overweight, landed in a farm field, tragically ran into overhead irrigation equipment.

Best regards,

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

Every plane will fly over gross weight, but no plane will fly without fuel.

[orionflt]

23 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

Every plane will fly over gross weight, but no plane will fly without fuel.

Not true, Gliders fly all the time with out fuel!

Brian

[mooniac15u]

I'd rather see someone plan a fuel stop if they can't put in enough fuel and keep it below gross. 

[gsxrpilot]

10 minutes ago, orionflt said:

Not true, Gliders fly all the time with out fuel!

Brian

How about this one...

Every plane can take off over gross, but no plane can take off without fuel.

Of course using the "plane" in a specific sense here... I fly hang gliders which take off just fine without fuel, but aren't technically airplanes. :-)

[Dan M20E '66]

Just a few weeks ago I did exactly what Carusoam suggested, and for the same reasons. I also wanted to know how accurate my fuel gauges were so I can have corrolation between my stick, gauges, and the EI CGR-30P monitor. I knew my left tank had about 8 gallons and the right tank considerably more, so I cruised at 6k' over a nearby airport until the left tank ran dry. I kept my handy PVC tank selector tool ready in my lap. Even though mentally prepared for it, I still was surprised when the engine sputtered and quit. My hands were shaking as I switched tanks, but surely enough the engine started back up in a few seconds - although it seemed like an eternity! I headed back to my home airport and hangar, and filled the tank while stopping every 3 gallons to mark my homemade stick which was previously marked using info from another Mooneyspace post. I learned a few things:

1. My previous markings overstated actual fuel.

2. When I ran dry, the tank was virtually empty because I filled it to the tab with 51.7 gallons (capacity is specified at 52 gallons)

3. I filled with hot fuel, which was a mistake because the next morning it was sitting below the tab and would have probably taken the full 52 gallons. This also means that my new stick markings may slightly understate fuel level - not a particularly bad thing.

4. My left fuel gauge shows full when the tank is full, but was pegged at "E" about 20 minutes before the engine stopped. Good to know.

I plan to repeat the exercise on the right tank, and hopefully I'll react more calmly this time! It was a worthwhile endeavor....

[Bob_Belville]

38 minutes ago, Dan M20E '66 said:

 

2. When I ran dry, the tank was virtually empty because I filled it to the tab with 51.7 gallons (capacity is specified at 52 gallons)

3. I filled with hot fuel, which was a mistake because the next morning it was sitting below the tab and would have probably taken the full 52 gallons. This also means that my new stick markings may slightly understate fuel level - not a particularly bad thing.

I guess you mean 26 gallons since you were only working on one tank...

[Guest]

5 hours ago, RLCarter said:

My E has a history of off field landings (2) and one fuel starvation after Take-off, all of which was before me. if you are going to push your reserves plan ahead so that the wing with fuel will be raised during pattern turns to reduce the risk of sucking air and seat covers. I subscribe to the theory of the only time you can have too much fuel onboard is when your on fire.

Hence why I carry 130 gallons.

Clarence

[DrBill]

i ran one tank out in my E on purpose during my IFR pre checkride. Stunned the cfi, but I switched tanks and engine resumed speed in less than 20 secs. He had a lot of confidence in me after that. That's when I created my dip stick.

Bill

 

[Dan M20E '66]

16 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

I guess you mean 26 gallons since you were only working on one tank...

Thanks, Bob - brain fade! 25.7 gallons to the tabs on the left tank with hot fuel....