Has Anyone Installed Precise Flight HID Lights in a J-Model?

[Mooney_Allegro]

I'm looking for anyone that has bought and installed the Precise Flight HID Kit for their J-model Mooney or any other Mooney for that matter.  These would have had to be approved by an FAA Field Approval, since there's no STC available for the J-model.  

Thanks for your assistance!

  

 

Edited August 18, 2016 by Mooney_Allegro

[M20F-1968]

I installed the Ovation landing lights in an F model, and then installed the HID lights in the Ovation landing light housings.  I purchased mine from another supplier, but I was told they are the same that Precise Flight was using.

John Breda

[kortopates]

You can't go back to the original installer in GA to get the paperwork straightened out? That would be the most straightforward and logical approach unless there is more to the story?

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[N601RX]

The FAA cracked down on HID lighting  several years ago. Before that it was being done with a log entry or by field approval. There may not be a easy path to straighten this now, proceed carefully.

From current version of FAA 8300.16

HID lighting installed and intended for use as primary lighting required to meet performance under the airworthiness standards requires approval by STC. 

[Mooney_Allegro]

On August 13, 2016 at 8:51 PM, M20F-1968 said:

I installed the Ovation landing lights in an F model, and then installed the HID lights in the Ovation landing light housings.  I purchased mine from another supplier, but I was told they are the same that Precise Flight was using.

John Breda

Thanks John for your information.  A company called Knots 2U makes the HID lights for Precise Flight, as Precise Flight is not in the light manufacturing business.  If I can find someone who has an FAA 337 form for a J-model, I'll be in business.  

David Lincoln

Edited August 18, 2016 by Mooney_Allegro

[Mooney_Allegro]

On August 14, 2016 at 8:43 AM, kortopates said:

You can't go back to the original installer in GA to get the paperwork straightened out? That would be the most straightforward and logical approach unless there is more to the story?

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I've been in contact with the MSC in GA, and he's looking at all angles now to get it approved with the FAA. 

Thanks for your reply!

Edited August 18, 2016 by Mooney_Allegro

[Mooney_Allegro]

10 hours ago, N601RX said:

The FAA cracked down on HID lighting  several years ago. Before that it was being done with a log entry or by field approval. There may not be a easy path to straighten this now, proceed carefully.

From current version of FAA 8300.16

HID lighting installed and intended for use as primary lighting required to meet performance under the airworthiness standards requires approval by STC. 

Thanks N601RX, I'm looking into all options for this issue.  I'm not an A&P or IA, so I rely on guidance from the experts.  There's no STC for these lights, so that's not an option.  Hopefully I'll have more info this week on how to proceed.  Thank you.

[jetdriven]

The newest generation of LED lamps are very bright and actually may be easier and substantially similar performance for less money and easy installation under the fact they are all PAR46.  No alteration basically. 

[kortopates]

I suggest making an appointment at your local FSDO to get their advice for options here. There is always the option of getting a one time STC with the help of DAR but it will cost $. LED's are an option too but not cheap and a significant down grade.

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[Mooney_Allegro]

22 hours ago, jetdriven said:

The newest generation of LED lamps are very bright and actually may be easier and substantially similar performance for less money and easy installation under the fact they are all PAR46.  No alteration basically. 

Thanks Byron.  I do like the LED's, but I've already spent $6000 in parts & labor for my HID's, so it's in my best interest to somehow acquire proper paperwork to bring my plane in compliance.  

David

[Mooney_Allegro]

12 hours ago, kortopates said:

I suggest making an appointment at your local FSDO to get their advice for options here. There is always the option of getting a one time STC with the help of DAR but it will cost $. LED's are an option too but not cheap and a significant down grade.

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Thanks Kortopates.  I didn't know you could do a one time STC with the help of a DER.   I spoke to the original installers today, and they will make an appointment to get a FAA Field Approval.  I'm just hoping this works, otherwise I might have to pull out the HID's and intall LED's to make it legal.   I'm told the FAA in Georgia is General Aviation friendly.  Thanks again for your assistance.  

[Mooney_Allegro]

On 8/13/2016 at 8:51 PM, M20F-1968 said:

I installed the Ovation landing lights in an F model, and then installed the HID lights in the Ovation landing light housings.  I purchased mine from another supplier, but I was told they are the same that Precise Flight was using.

John Breda

M20F-1968, 

I'm wondering if your HID lights in your Ovation are manufactured by Knots 2U?  I'm guessing they are.  If so, were they installed by an STC or Field Approval?  If you have an FAA 337 Form for the install, that might help me out, even though you have an Ovation.  My MSC in Georgia can submit a copy of yours to help persuade the FAA that it's been done on multiple Mooney aircraft.  I already have a copy of an FAA Field Approval for a M20K aircraft for HID's.  Having another Mooney would help out a lot I think.  

Thank you,

David

[carusoam]

John's F looks more like an O, from the inside...

Call it nicely updated. 

Best regards,

-a-

[kortopates]

12 hours ago, kortopates said: I suggest making an appointment at your local FSDO to get their advice for options here. There is always the option of getting a one time STC with the help of DAR but it will cost $. LED's are an option too but not cheap and a significant down grade.

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Thanks Kortopates.  I didn't know you could do a one time STC with the help of a DER.   I spoke to the original installers today, and they will make an appointment to get a FAA Field Approval.  I'm just hoping this works, otherwise I might have to pull out the HID's and intall LED's to make it legal.   I'm told the FAA in Georgia is General Aviation friendly.  Thanks again for your assistance.  

That's great news and really the best way to resolve this. The shop should not have any problem getting a field approval since the STC covered the K whose airframe is identical to the J model. ( and the F model too). You misunderstood John though - he has an F model that he installed the Ovation wing light housing into his F wing and then installed HID's into the housing. His field approval may be helpful if your lights are also in the wing which I am assuming they are. But your installer really won't have a problem getting approval with the Precise lights. The FAA is much less sympathetic with folks that buy unapproved HID's when there are approved options available and then want their help to install - that's when they don't care but you're not doing that.

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[Mooney_Allegro]

8 minutes ago, kortopates said:

That's great news and really the best way to resolve this. The shop should not have any problem getting a field approval since the STC covered the K whose airframe is identical to the J model. ( and the F model too). You misunderstood John though - he has an F model that he installed the Ovation wing light housing into his F wing and then installed HID's into the housing. His field approval may be helpful if your lights are also in the wing which I am assuming they are. But your installer really won't have a problem getting approval with the Precise lights. The FAA is much less sympathetic with folks that buy unapproved HID's when there are approved options available and then want their help to install - that's when they don't care but you're not doing that.

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You're right Kortopates, I misunderstood.  I thought John had two planes, an Ovation and the F model.  When I read it again, I understood correctly.  I should have more info today on setting up an appt. with the FAA for September.  I really like the HID's. They are super bright and burn very cool (no heat).  I was changing one of the 4 old bulbs every 50 hours before.  It's been 8 years, and I've not changed one of the HID's.  Of course I could change a lot of bulbs for $6000 I paid for the HID's.  

[N601RX]

You may be in luck, I attached the Mooney factory drawings for installing HID wing lights.  It includes certain serial numbers of the J model.  It also list the Precise Flight part numbers for the ballast and bulbs.  Assuming your install is in compliance with these drawings you should not need a field approval, just a logbook entry and weight and balance. 

Mooney HID install diagram.pdf

[Mooney_Allegro]

11 hours ago, N601RX said:

You may be in luck, I attached the Mooney factory drawings for installing HID wing lights.  It includes certain serial numbers of the J model.  It also list the Precise Flight part numbers for the ballast and bulbs.  Assuming your install is in compliance with these drawings you should not need a field approval, just a logbook entry and weight and balance. 

Mooney HID install diagram.pdf

N601RX,

Thank you so much for providing this diagram!  I think this will help a lot.  I'll cross check the bulb and ballast numbers with what I have, but it appears to be the same.