Stigma Mooneys are small

[Bob_Belville]

Some might recognize the young lady in the back seat. She and Lynn swapped places for the return KGGG-KERV-KGGG. 4 hours coming and going.

[kortopates]

Some might recognize the young lady in the back seat. She and Lynn swapped places for the return KGGG-KERV-KGGG. 4 hours coming and going.

Of course, everyone's favorite blonde Mooney pilot!! and you got her out of Dan's 201 with the longer leg room to boot!

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[Tommy]

If you and your passengers both have broad shoulders, then prepare to get intimate...

If your passenger is not physically fit, he or she will be on all fours to get out of the plane...

 

[ArtVandelay]

18 minutes ago, Tommy said:

If you and your passengers have both have broad shoulders, then prepare to get intimate...

Can't help the backseat passengers, but if you just stagger the front seats you can prevent rubbing shoulders 

[Danb]

Bob your always flying with good looking girls.

Tommy my wife is the least physically fit person I know, her last knee replacement 10weeks ago, she gets in/out with no problem. Technique!!

[Bob_Belville]

On 8/8/2016 at 6:19 AM, Tommy said:

If you and your passengers have both have broad shoulders, then prepare to get intimate...

We're wider than airline seating. The roll cage in the same for all models @ the front seat station. 

If your passenger is not physically fit, he or she will be on all fours to get out of the plane...

My wife is not physically fit and gets in and out to both front and back seats just fine but I would grant that getting in and out takes more effort than getting in a larger car. (My around the town car for over 10 years is a Chrysler Crossfire. I get in and out with ease but passengers of almost any size struggle. it's all about experience.)  

 

 

[Mcoyne34]

https://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd.aspx?id=154662&listingType=true&IsInternal=True&pagingNo=1&searchId=25604242&dealerid=

 

 

Maybe this one works. 

[carusoam]

That bird is/was OrangeMTL's an MS user.

Go Long Body!

Best regards,

-a-

[AndyFromCB]

39 minutes ago, Mcoyne34 said:

https://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd.aspx?id=154662&listingType=true&IsInternal=True&pagingNo=1&searchId=25604242&dealerid=

 

 

Maybe this one works. 

Ok,

So it has 964lb of useful load, no A/C, no TKS. A comparable Cirrus has without A/C or TKS will have 1248lb useful load, almost 300lb, That's 60 gallons of fuel, or 3.5 hours at high speed cruise. I've never found a long body mooney to be tight on space. If it fits in a suburban it will most likely fit in a long body. But with a kid on the way (and all kid related crap), my Bravo simply became useless range wise with 945lb of useful load. 220lb for me, 160lb for the Mrs, 2 dogs at 50lb total, 150lb of kid and luggage, left me 60gallons of fuel, 10 for take off and climb, 15 for reserve left me with a 2 hour range and heading west bound that meant about 250nm range in winter. Mooney will remain a little boutique brand until they fix that glaring shortcoming. A traveling 4 seat aircraft in this price range needs to be able to fill 4 seats and take on 3 hours of fuel + reserves and cover 450nm against winter winds. Cirrus does that and that's why they sell like hotcakes. That extra 300lb does it. Instead they went for doors?

Edited August 8, 2016 by AndyFromCB

[1524J]

18 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Sure glad I didn't know that before I took off on this flight in our little E for a trip of 3 hours each way to and from west TN. Nancy and I are in our 70s - she has had a knee replacement. Guess we ought to find a nice Cherokee 6.   

Bob, just as soon as you locate that Cherokee 6 let me know. I'm sure there are several us Moonyspacers that would be willing to settle for your short body E. Heck, I'll even buy it without a PPI.   

[ArtVandelay]

Cirrus is a modern design with modern materials, Mooneys are a design from 1960, heavy steel roll cage and landing gear. They need to use carbon fiber and titanium instead if steel and aluminum.

[Bob_Belville]

11 minutes ago, 1524J said:

Bob, just as soon as you locate that Cherokee 6 let me know. I'm sure there are several us Moonyspacers that would be willing to settle for your short body E. Heck, I'll even buy it without a PPI.   

Not getting any younger. It looks like I might get in 100 hours this year...  and I'll welcome a PPI. 

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, teejayevans said:

Cirrus is a modern design with modern materials, Mooneys are a design from 1960, heavy steel roll cage and landing gear. They need to use carbon fiber and titanium instead if steel and aluminum.

Hum, does the SR22 still have a 4350 hour "airframe life limit"? 

There sure were a lot of steel and aluminum planes, e.g., the Ford TriMotor flying around KOSH. 

In spite of this advice the jury is still out on Plastics. 

 

[ryoder]

These size stigmas are not cool.  It's not the size of the airplane that matters.

[M20F]

I find the size and cube of my F to be fine.  I moved almost my entire household from Chicago to NJ in it.  The seats though I find really uncomfortable after 3+hrs.  Bonzana's and the like with the higher seating that allow your knees to bend I finda lot more comfortable.  In general I find most airplanes more comfortable than a Mooney but in terms of capital, cube, load, and operating cost the Mooney definitely wins out.  I just don't enjoy the 5hr legs so much.  

[DonMuncy]

I agree that 5 hour legs are tough. But I think it is more the ergonomics of the seats, rather than their height. It would be easy to put in seats that would be a lot more comfortable, but we would probably lose 40 or 50 pounds of useful load.

[M20F]

57 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

I agree that 5 hour legs are tough. But I think it is more the ergonomics of the seats, rather than their height. It would be easy to put in seats that would be a lot more comfortable, but we would probably lose 40 or 50 pounds of useful load.

For me it is the knee bend and the weight on my butt.  I use a cushion and slide the seat all the way back so I can spread my legs between the gear well.  It helps but I hate long trips in the Mooney.  I will say the back seat is pretty comfy and when I have a co pilot along that is usually where I end up. 

[Tommy]

6 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

I totally disagree with this.  I have broad shoulders and so does my partner.  We both sit next to each other and his shoulders never touch mine.  If you are overweight medically speaking then yes ANY aeroplane inlcuding P brand Mirages etc will br cramped, but then as the RSM of the Honarable Artillery Company once told me "you know why people get fat, because their mouth hole is bigger than their a hole". (He was a bit of a character).  

Mooneys have a sitting position that is possibly unique in light aircraft in that you sit in not on the aircraft.   I reguarly fly four hour trips at full fuel, two up, full baggage and find it very comfortable. Aeroplanes i have flown in the past include. The TB series, P brands, C brands, B brands single and twin.  I can honestly say except the B twin (which is in a different class) the mooney is the most comfortable, stable, capable plane i have ever flown.   Also fly reguarly 2 hour flights four adults, fuel to tabs and bags.  No problem at all.  The cg of a mooney is to die for, love it.   

Now lets talk egress, my partner has one leg, left leg above kneee amuputee at age 18.  You cant really say therefore that he is physically fit.  He gets out  of the aircraft with no trouble at all.  Granted it is not as pretty as him getting out of a Rolls Royce or Bentley but hey its a small aircraft, so when he gets out of an MG car it isnt pretty either.

Mooneys are the fastest and most fuel efficient planes in their class, when fuel costs 2.01 uk pounds a litre (thats approx 8-9 uk pounds a gallon) then ill go for fuel efficiency every time for the best speed and comfort.  Cirrus and the 400 dont even come close.  Now Mooney put a damn diesel up front please then you will kill Cirrus.  

 

 

Just exactly which other aircraft are we comparing to? It's a lot easier to get in and out of a high wing Cessna. Beech has more cabin width / volume. I am simply calling a spade a spade after spending quite sometime flying many other aircrafts with passengers. Case and point. I recently flew an Angelflight mission, the 110kg guy made a casual comment that it's a lot easier to get out of the 210 but he reckons the Mooney is a lot slicker.

I really don't understand why people are getting so defensive about the cabin size? We fly Mooney not for its cabin comfort but for everything else you mentioned - which I agreed wholeheartedly.

Or is it because we, as Mooney pilots, are so proud of ourselves and our plane that we simply cannot accept any criticism?

Tommy

[M20F]

8 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Or is it because we, as Mooney pilots, are so proud of ourselves and our plane that we simply cannot accept any criticism?

I don't view it as criticism.  For some people maybe the Mooney is the most spacious and comfortable plane in the world, but for most who make that argument passionately they are just delusional.  I bought a Mooney because it was the best mix of everything for the price.  I would much rather be in a lot of other planes, but for my needs the Mooney fits the bill.

To the Commander advocate I learned how to fly and have about 600hrs in a 19 54 or 56 (can't remember) 560A.  Fill 7 seats with full baggage and gas and you don't even need to do a W&B.  A leisurely 140kts at 24gph but it was without a doubt the best and most stable plane I ever flown, and I have flown a lot of models.  

[jetdriven]

I find it larger than a Bellanca Super Viking, slightly smaller than a Bonanza or Arrow, and defiantly smaller than a Commander 114.  But I not only fly the plane I also pay for it and there is no other certified plane that will take 2 people and bags at 155 knots and 17-18 NMPG.  Stagger the seats and the cabin width gets easier.  Th arrow has the same seats but then Mooney u sit lower.  Similar to a 150, really.  

[Marauder]

Aircraft Cabin Width Cabin Height

Mooney 201 43.5″ 44.5″

Beechcraft V35 Bonanza 42.0″ 50.0″

Cessna 182 42.0″ 48.0″

Piper Arrow 41.0″ 45.0″

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[jetdriven]

Those numbers are cool but I rub shoulders more in a a Mooney than a 182 or a Arrow....

[Danb]

Sitting in my recliner watching football is tough, I flew commercial first class last month and was more uncomfortable than my Mooney. It's definitely individual, I personally am more comfy in my Mooney than any other plane,including five plus hour legs 

[Bravoman]

The mooney is for trips with the wife and perhaps the mistress. If you want to haul the family, the dogs, etc., you need an old Saratoga, Lance or Cherokee six!

[Jsavage3]

Entry & exit are the only real issues I see.  My wife makes her exit look very graceful from the co-pilot seat by swinging her legs and sliding out along the leading edge of the wing and gently landing on her feet there in front of the wing...but she makes it look good even when it's not graceful!  Sitting beside my wife is where I kinda want to be touching elbows, if you know what I mean. It's all about mission. Recently took my 6'4", 230-lb brother and his two sons up for an hour of sightseeing around the Grand Coulee Dam. His sons are 10 & 14-yrs of age and I'm no cream-puff at 6'1" and 175-lbs...albeit, we were light on fuel and I emptied out the extra stuff in the baggage area, we were still easily within the CG limits for the airplane and landed with over 20 gallons of fuel remaining. And we were quite comfortable in flight I might add...certainly no complaints as my pax were doing nothing but GRIN! Good memories and the Mooney worked it's magic again!!