floridaflyer Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 My Rocket lost 4 quarts of oil during a 3 hour flight. I found out when it took 4 quarts to get it back to 8. Until then I was using about 1 quart every 4 hours and I didn't think much of it. During the flight manifold pressure starting to fluctuate about 4 inches, with oil pressure close to yellow range. I since figured out the MP fluctuation was due to insufficient oil pressure actuating the turbo waste gate. Landed at nearest field and local maintenance facility did leak down, one of the cylinders was around 40 lbs. No oil in exhaust or any other visible leak but lots of oil under belly. The oil was coming out of the crankcase breather tube due to blow by. They pulled the cylinder and put in new ring set and that fixed it. I also noticed the oil was still clear after a 4 hour return flight. So if you're losing an excessive amount of oil this could be due to blow by like it was for me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
211º Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Hmmm. Going to keep an eye on this as I too am currently calculating about 0.25 qt of oil used per hour. Thanks for writing this up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Did you notice an increase in oil temp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonal Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Oh, and welcome to Mooney Space Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris_adams Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Welcome. Glad everything worked out for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridaflyer Posted July 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 13 minutes ago, bonal said: Did you notice an increase in oil temp That's the crazy part, the oil temp went down to 160F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaMan Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Nice, so there's a rocket owner in Florida. Where are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridaflyer Posted August 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 54 minutes ago, Antares said: Nice, so there's a rocket owner in Florida. Where are you? Clearwater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaMan Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 I had a chrome lined cylinder installed last annual and noticed higher temps and increased oil blown out for the first 50-100 hours after the install. I'm guessing there was increased blowby during break-in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridaflyer Posted September 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 UPDATE - IT AIN'T GOOD So... a year after my initial post and following a top end, zero oil loss in the first 5 hours, then the issue returned with a vengeance: 3 qts oil lost out of the coming out of the crankcase breather in 1 hour... New Millenium cylinder assemblies with all compressions in the mid to high 70's. 5 STOH. 1,400 SMOH. Rules out blowby. New prop seal. Rules out ram air leaking into the crankcase at speed. New oil filler cap seal. Ditto. New Airwolf air/oil separator. The two IA's who worked on the plane are stumped so I'm running out of options. Any suggestions on whom to talk to or take the plane to are appreciated. At this point, selling as-is is the only option I can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertGary1 Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 Do you have an engine monitor? Are the EGTs mostly in line? -Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridaflyer Posted September 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 RobertGary1: Yes, all EGT's are within 30F of each other. So are CHTs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 You could have blockage in the turbo return oil line. It will blow all the oil out the turbo bearings. or something else.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 You could have blockage in the turbo return oil line. It will blow all the oil out the turbo bearings. or something else.... Definitely start here, and make sure check valves are installed in the correct orientation and functional.Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 Yeah, it sure sounds a lot like this other thread yesterday 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridaflyer Posted September 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 (edited) N201MKTurb and KSMooniac: Turbo was overhauled 1 year ago. There is no soot on exhaust pipe so I'm not burning any oil, the oil is lost out of the breather. I will ask IA to double check the turbo to make sure there is no air leaking from the turbo compressor side back into the engine through the turbo oil return line. Edited September 29, 2017 by floridaflyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridaflyer Posted September 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 Andy95W the post you referred to is different, he said: "Flew from Holland to Vienna a few weeks back and during cruise it hardly uses any oil." I lose 3 qts an hour in flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 Oil being pushed out the breather often comes with a signature of high pressure in the engine block. Mechanics measure that pressure using an ASI. Does your oil smell like it has adsorbed exhaust odors or turn dark? Can your mechanic measure the pressure inside the engine block? Definitely read @MooneyMark MooneyMark's thread for the questions that come up regarding turbo check valves, scavenger pump and start-up issues... There is a lot of techno detail outlining all the possibilities of a turbo causing oil loss. It seems to be a two step process. 1) the oil drains someplace... 2) then the oil gets pushed overboard in a second step... The check valves seem to be be able to get installed backwards... setting up this possibility... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridaflyer Posted September 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 Carusoam: All good points. Oil is clear with no smell as it should be given brand new cylinder assemblies and no blowby. I had the ASI hooked up before the top end and it was reading 120 mph instead of the 90 mph max specified in the TCM SB. We'll hook it up again and see what pressure we're getting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drapo Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 I don't know about the Rocket, but if I put 8 qts of oil in my IO360 A1A, it will go down to 6 in a matter of an hour or two via the breather tube! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridaflyer Posted September 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 Drapo: This is a TSIO 520 with 12 qts capacity the oil loss last brought level down to 5 qts which is below minimum of 1/2 capacity per FAA. If it stopped at above 6 qts I would be fine with it although wouldn't have much margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drapo Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 7 hours ago, floridaflyer said: Drapo: This is a TSIO 520 with 12 qts capacity the oil loss last brought level down to 5 qts which is below minimum of 1/2 capacity per FAA. If it stopped at above 6 qts I would be fine with it although wouldn't have much margin. That is what I meant when I said that I did not know about a Rocket... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridaflyer Posted October 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 So for what is --hopefully-- the final update on my original post, problem fixed. After top end, new prop seal, new oil filler seals and the turbo O/H just 1 year ago, the culprit was the Airwolf air/oil separator. After I removed it (see the lonely bracket left behind), zero oil loss after 4+ hrs flying at various altitudes. To be fair to Airwolf, the AOS probably didn't have enough downward slope for oil to return to the case via the modified pushrod. It's moot because no oil loss without it. Anybody looking for a lightly used AOS please PM me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris_adams Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 So glad you found the culprit. Thanks for updating us as well. So few people tend to do that. As far as the AOS goes, my mechanic took mine off as he said he's seen them cause as many issues as they fix. If I have to wipe a little oil off the belly that's OK with me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridaflyer Posted October 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 20 minutes ago, Kris_Adams said: So glad you found the culprit. Thanks for updating us as well. So few people tend to do that. As far as the AOS goes, my mechanic took mine off as he said he's seen them cause as many issues as they fix. If I have to wipe a little oil off the belly that's OK with me! I hear you, I put the AOS in thinking it would be the solution but post-top end, it became the problem! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.