Upgrades to the panel - best bang for the $$$$

[Patto]

I bought my first Mooney last month, a 1974 M20C.  Below are pictures of the panel.  The KLX135 GPS/COM is being removed for service currently since its comm signal reception is very weak.  The card compass is not working correctly and is going to be tuned up.

After that. I'm looking for input on what you all think would be the best upgrades on a minimal budget, and in what order.  This will be a one-thing-at-a-time-type of process.

What I'm thinking about doing next is moving the Garmin 695 down to the dash (after I send it to Garmin to get fixed - currently will not connect to PC via USB port for upgrades).  I'd also like to install and ADS B In/Out that will interface with the 695.  

The lower VOR indicator does not seem to be working.  I'm wondering if I should replace it with something else or get it fixed.

The old school DME works very well.  BUT, should I get rid of it and free up some space for something else?

This is all just brainstorming.  If you have a better idea than mine, please feel free to tell me, my feelings won't be hurt!  However, budget-friendly items are key.  By the end of the year, I will be able to come up with about $5-7k that I may be able to invest in it.

 

[Pictreed]

I can't say enough about the Avidyne IFD 440 GPS. 

That gives you a reliable Nav/Com.

Ditch the ADF.

More than likely your KLX135 unit is the reason the CDI isn't working if that's where it's coming from.

Very nice C.   

What kind of flying are you going to do?  VFR/IFR, cross country or just local?

Tim

[Patto]

Just now, Pictreed said:

I can't say enough about the Avidyne IFD 440 GPS. 

That gives you a reliable Nav/Com.

Ditch the ADF.

Tim

A little beyond my budget, but thank you.

It's an old DME, not an ADF, but about as useful.

The KLX135 will be fixed and I'll have a reliable primary COM.  The secondary VOR/GS is the lower one and is not working, so I'd be okay removing that and replacing it with something else.

[DXB]

Congrats!  Easy question- best bang for the kind of 5-7k buck you have on hand would be a good engine monitor with fuel flow, with some money left over for minor stuff. Biggest bang overall are WAAS GPS and modern autopilot, but that will have to wait.

[Patto]

11 minutes ago, DXB said:

Congrats!  Easy question- best bang for the kind of 5-7k buck you have on hand would be a good engine monitor with fuel flow, with some money left over for minor stuff. Biggest bang overall are WAAS GPS and modern autopilot, but that will have to wait.

Okay, specifically which engine monitoring system(s) do you recommend and how much am I looking at for installation?

 

[Patto]

39 minutes ago, Pictreed said:

I can't say enough about the Avidyne IFD 440 GPS. 

That gives you a reliable Nav/Com.

Ditch the ADF.

More than likely your KLX135 unit is the reason the CDI isn't working if that's where it's coming from.

Very nice F.  

What kind of flying are you going to do?  VFR/IFR, cross country or just local?

Tim

Sorry Tim, I didn't answer your questions at the end.  I'm looking at getting my IFR in this airplane and building hours/experience.  I only have 180 hours logged and would like to get my IFR and Commercial within the next 12 months, with most of it in this airplane.  I will also be working on my MEL but will find something to rent for that.

[gsengle]

38 minutes ago, Patto said:

Okay, specifically which engine monitoring system(s) do you recommend and how much am I looking at for installation?

 

At least a JPI edm730, assuming you don't want to need to replace stock instruments.... Get engine monitoring and fuel totalizer all in one, love it.

https://www.jpinstruments.com/shop/edm-730-2/

 

[CaptainAB]

There is a used Stec 30 w alt hold in the avionincs section. Between that and a used 430 also available in the avionics section. The autopilot Would be my pick. I did my ifr w/o one but I wouldn't do that again.

 

[M20F]

I have an EI MVP-50 and I like it, but I flew 30yrs without one.  If I had to get one thing it would be GPS/WAAS.  Engine monitors are highly over rated Internet driven phenomenas, nice to have but certainly nowhere is useful as GPS/WAAS.  Garmin 430W will meet your budget, toss in an iPad+Stratus 2 and victory is yours.  

Edited July 26, 2016 by M20F

[MyNameIsNobody]

I have individual EI gauges and a 696 panel mounted on the right.  The 696 is connected to the Garmin glare screen ADSB and Bluetooth to the iPad for weather and GPS.  I have a G3 engine monitor, but would have gotten the round MVP monitor if it had been out.  You have a nice panel.  Agree that the DME is a boat anchor.  I am interested in the new Garmin AH unit that is being STC'd.  Don't forget ADSB Out.  Mandate coming soon.

[Pictreed]

Ok, now that I'm not shotguning answers on a quick break at work, maybe I can think a bit more on it. 

You're in about the same spot I am.  I just finished instrument training and have started the commercial requirements.  'Agree with renting the twin, me too. 

Does your GPS do RNAV?   I don't know about that model.  You might keep the DME if it's working and your GPS can't identify the fixes on an ILS/DME approach...again, I don't know a lot about your equipment.  

I would hang onto that cash until you get at least 10 hours in it.  I just went in for some upgrades and while it was there the AI tanked and it had to be rebuilt ~$600-$1000.   I also lost the King Nav/Com with leaking capacitors that two different radio shops said it's toast.  A good used one is $1500-$2500.  I opted to buy a new Garmin Nav/Com/GS because failure during IMC isn't a good thing.

Without GPS (still ASSuming it won't show the fixes) you're going to need that other CDI in case you need to identify a fix off another VOR.  

I think the most important thing is to keep some cash to fix the things that go out from age.  I would keep the blinders on so the sparklies don't catch your eye if your budget includes training.  Nothing is worse than being ground from training because you're fixing your plane because you spent the money on instant gratification.  

Tim

ps... I love those engine controls.  You've got a nice canvas.  There will be time for upgrades.

I'm just getting to know my JPI engine monitor but I don't know how benificial it is on a caroratored engine...I'll let others comment on that. 

[Marauder]

Patto -- I would look at the upgrades based on your intent on hanging onto the plane for a while. If you see yourself moving to another plane in the 3 to 5 year time frame, I would consider repairing what you have to make it functional.

If you think you will keeping the plane for a while, I would start with an engine analyzer that can act as a primary replacement? Why? Because all those 50 year old gauges will nickel and dime you to death when they begin failing.

JPI 900, GEM from Insight, the EI offering are all viable analyzers that will replace your primary gauges.

If you plan on keeping her for a while, I would not spend a penny to fix any of the Narco stuff in the panel. The company is out of business and replacement parts are becoming more harder to find (ask me how I know). The #2 CDI you have is a combo CDI/Nav. If it is dead, better off pulling it than spending good money after bad. You might be able to find someone with an extra unit for cheap, but I wouldn't pay to fix it. Same goes for the Narco audio panel, transponder and DME.

I would look for a pre-owned 430W and a CDI that will work with it.

The decision of what to replace will depend a lot on what kind of flying you expect to be doing. I flew for years (22 to be exact) flying behind this all steam panel:

In 2012, I made the big investment to upgrade the panel after building up a reserve. I ended up replacing my Narco Nav/Com when it became unreliable for IFR flying. If you are into the long haul on this plane, just take your time on the upgrades and select what makes sense based on your budget and type of flying. And don't forget to keep asking us knuckleheads for suggestions. We are great at spending other people's money.

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[Marauder]

And BTW, that is an interesting gear knob you have there.

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[Patto]

37 minutes ago, Marauder said:

And BTW, that is an interesting gear knob you have there.

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The gear knob fell off right after I bought it.  The threads on the switch are broken off.  I'm working on obtaining a new one.  But, yes, I have not seen one like it before.

[DXB]

I like my JPI900 a lot as primary- well within your price range. As are multiple other good JPI and EI options above and below that price point - I believe mine was 4-5k installed.  It made sense to me to dump decades old engine gauges.  As Marauder notes, avoiding having to keep them going offsets the added cost of a primary instrument. But others may prefer the redundancy - at least for rpm and mp.  Also remember that if it's not primary, one of your 4 CHTs will be rendered inaccurate by need to use a piggyback or spark plug probe, since you have to keep he factory probe.  I love having accurate data.  Maybe get a new panel cut at the same time to improve the layout and accommodate your future upgrades - this will bring you up to 7k or so.  

BTW whatever monitor you get, definitely have the carb temp option put in.  It's cheap and definitely gives me peace of mind - it lets me use partial carb heat safely whenever needed and basically takes carb ice risk off the table.

 

[RangerJim]

Move those headsets and portable electronic devices a foot or two away fro the mag compass and see if that issue resolves.

[ArtVandelay]

There is a used Stec 30 w alt hold in the avionincs section. Between that and a used 430 also available in the avionics section. The autopilot Would be my pick. I did my ifr w/o one but I wouldn't do that again.

 

I wasn't allowed to used the autopilot for my IFR training.

[ArtVandelay]

I have an EI MVP-50 and I like it, but I flew 30yrs without one.  If I had to get one thing it would be GPS/WAAS.  Engine monitors are highly over rated Internet driven phenomenas, nice to have but certainly nowhere is useful as GPS/WAAS.  Garmin 430W will meet your budget, toss in an iPad+Stratus 2 and victory is yours.  

You can't be serious?

My engine monitor has saved me $ by telling me exactly what was wrong and what cylinder, not to mention letting me know I had a engine problem before I took off...it can save you money and your life, I would not leave the ground without one.

[MyNameIsNobody]

8 hours ago, Patto said:

The gear knob fell off right after I bought it.  The threads on the switch are broken off.  I'm working on obtaining a new one.  But, yes, I have not seen one like it before.

Find a skull with glowing eyes

[MyNameIsNobody]

5 hours ago, teejayevans said:

You can't be serious?

My engine monitor has saved me $ by telling me exactly what was wrong and what cylinder, not to mention letting me know I had a engine problem before I took off...it can save you money and your life, I would not leave the ground without one.

I was hoping for a surely in there...

 

Airplane (movie) humor...

[Pictreed]

1 hour ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

Find a skull with glowing eyes

The same thing crossed my mind. Lol

but I was afraid he'd actually do it. 

[Patto]

1 hour ago, Pictreed said:

The same thing crossed my mind. Lol

but I was afraid he'd actually do it. 

Yes, yes I would, but I'd save the old knob for resale someday.

[Patto]

Okay, lots of great advice in here, and I really appreciate all of it.  As far as how long I intend to keep this airplane, it's indefinite.  It could be next year or never.  It is really tough to beat one of these for economy and speed, but comfort is another store entirely.  I'm leaning toward doing one upgrade at a time (such as a GPS or engine monitor this year, the other the next year, and so on).  

However, Pictreed/Tim makes a good point that I am getting distracted by all the shiny and cool things I'm seeing without thinking about budgeting for the unexpected. I'll have to think about that for awhile.  Perhaps I should just start building up a fund like Marauder did and eventually I'll have enough to either replace everything or trade up to a new plane.

As far as used equipment goes: being a new aircraft owner, my understanding is that I cannot install avionics, autopilots, instruments, etc. myself, but it seems some of you are buying used equipment and installing it yourselves sometimes?  Do you just have an A&P sign off on the work after you're done?

[Patto]

10 hours ago, RangerJim said:

Move those headsets and portable electronic devices a foot or two away fro the mag compass and see if that issue resolves.

That photo is from when I bought it.  In flight the compass is not accurate.  Moving things away from it did not seem to help.  I think it may be toast.  Nice of the old owner to disclose that along with all of the other things that were not working...

[carusoam]

Don't be mislead into doing things yourself because others SEEM to be doing it....  Or even ARE doing it.

It is easy to buy and resell the hardware.  Sometimes you might get stuck with a device that is not able to be installed by some shops.  

Often Mooney pilots will install things with the assistance of their local mechanic or instrument expert.  It is really cool when you build this local relationship.  If you have the skill your mechanic will only need to review your work and sign the log book entries.

Then there will be some things only a hangar fairy will touch.

Often, you will see somebody write something like 'I just installed a GTN 750 in my Mooney'. They often leave out key words like 'I am a DOM at an MSC'. 

You may find many people here have the skill and the license to install these things themselves.  

Then there are people like me that will say they just installed something cool.  My typing will completely avoid the long drawn-out effort of saying I did it at annual and my mechanic really did the work.  I had nothing to do with the actual install other than the paying for it part...

Mooney ownership is cool.  MS is cool.

Best regard,

-a-