Training to prepare for Oshkosh arrival

[DXB]

So I'm flying my first arrival at Oshkosh this year in my C model- not the Caravan but the standard FISK VFR arrival.  I'm studying the Notam, which is really pretty clear, and watching some youtube videos to get the visual lay of the land and ambiance of the arrival. But as a fairly low time pilot, I feel like I should also practice some flying skills to get ready.  I'm going to schedule something with my instructor in a couple of weeks for this purpose and wanted to now what skills I should ask to practice.  As of now, I plan to practice the following:

-Short field/ precision landings

-Short approaches/ engine out 180s

-Configuring the plane for 90kts cruise - This may take some trial and error, I pretty much never cruise this slow

-Slow flight in general

Do folks have any other suggestions?  One thing that worries me is judging spacing and making necessary adjustments if I'm getting too close.   

 

 

[jetdriven]

23 minutes ago, DXB said:

So I'm flying my first arrival at Oshkosh this year in my C model- not the Caravan but the standard FISK VFR arrival.  I'm studying the Notam, which is really pretty clear, and watching some youtube videos to get the visual lay of the land and ambiance of the arrival. But as a fairly low time pilot, I feel like I should also practice some flying skills to get ready.  I'm going to schedule something with my instructor in a couple of weeks for this purpose and wanted to now what skills I should ask to practice.  As of now, I plan to practice the following:

-Short field/ precision landings

-Short approaches/ engine out 180s

-Configuring the plane for 90kts cruise - This may take some trial and error, I pretty much never cruise this slow

-Slow flight in general

Do folks have any other suggestions?  One thing that worries me is judging spacing and making necessary adjustments if I'm getting too close.   

 

 

100 MPH is plenty above stall speed and even 80 allows some maneuver margin.  Go up to a safe altitude and practice 30 degree S turns at 80 mph.  

[carusoam]

Precision landing is good.  They tell you what color dot to land on and it is good to be as close to it as possible.

One thing that stands out is the ability to know your air speed and be scanning for traffic at all times while listening to the radio.

It really helps having a second pilot or knowledgable/experienced person on board.  

It really helps to have the procedures really well reviewed.

Changes in wind and weather can change the arrival procedure.

Radio traffic is at a high level,. Sort of normal for IR pilots.  Additional weight on an ordinary pilot's multi-tasking ability.

Practice your multitasking abilities, while flying with precision speed control.

One of the challenges is there is somebody landing short on the same runway as somebody else landing long.  If you are on the first dot, don't land long.  If you are on the last dot, don't land early...

Know the MP for your plane's weight that will keep you flying without descending once over the numbers at final approach speed in the event you need to extend the float a little and not invade an earlier dot on the ground...

Have the go around procedure memorized and in mind on approach to your dot.  Something may make you want to use it.  You don't want to run into somebody landing in front of you.

Be ready to say what you are doing clearly on the radio...

Also know your stall speed vs. bank angles.  There may be a point where you can't turn anymore to make the runway and dot that you have been assigned.  Do not turn a communication challenge into a steep turn to final stall situation....

a pilot needs to know his limitations and how not to exceed them...

PP ideas that come to mind.  Not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

I flew my C into Sun n Fun in 2010. Had a 2nd pilot riding right seat, the extra eyes were great. It wasn't bad at all, just get in line as instructed and follow the plane(s) you're told to follow.

Prior to the trip, I printed the NOTAM, stapled it together like a book, and highlighted the parts I would need. It included digital photos of the important navigation landmarks; you've watched the videos, so you should be prepared. Just reread and highlight the NOTAM.

For flying, I just treated it like an approach, which are standard at 90 knots (= 105 MPH for my plane). My standard for those is 2300 and enough MP to hold speed, with Flaps to Takeoff. Gear up is about 16-17", add a couple of inches for gear down. Don't expect to talk on the radio, just listen and perform. On short final, I was sidestepped from the taxiway to the runway, and instructed many times, "Mooney, don't land yet, keep going." Just over 5000' down the runway, they let me land . . . 

Be alert, look for the landmarks, don't run over the guy in front of you who may not keep 90 knots, may not fly at the right altitude, and may miss every turn (like the planes I followed--one turn they missed by a good 1/4 mile!).

The fun starts at your parking spot. Everything up until then is work, even if it's not too hard. Have fun, let the other guy take pictures, and post them here! 

[steingar]

Don't stress it, it really isn't that bad.  You show up at Ripon and follow someone in.  You should be flying at 90 knots or slower on your downwind, so you already know how to do it.  My plan is to drop the gear and possibly some flaps to keep it slow.  Dirty up the airframe sufficiently and the Mooney will fly just like a Skyhawk.  Follow the Notam and it will be just fine.

i have the inverse problem from when I first flew to Oshkosh 6 months after my private check ride in my trusty Cessna 150. That aircraft struggled to make it up to 90 knots.  The Mooney will have trouble going that slow.  What a wonderful irony.

i hope to meet everyone there.  I owe beers for all the good advice and wisdom I've learned from this site.

[BDPetersen]

Having done the Fiske arrival maybe 20 times, my pet peave is with the inability of many to fly OVER the railroad tracks leaving RIPON. Not exactly something to practice, but to wrap your head around what it means to put the tracks between your legs and keep them there. It's disconcerting to try to figure out how to get in line with someone who can't find the line. Altitude control, as well. Then listen. Be on the frequency plenty early to get the jist of what to expect. You'll be fine. Fly the specified speed on the arrival. Gear down leaving RIPON.

[Bob]

1 hour ago, BDPetersen said:

Having done the Fiske arrival maybe 20 times, my pet peave is with the inability of many to fly OVER the railroad tracks leaving RIPON. Not exactly something to practice, but to wrap your head around what it means to put the tracks between your legs and keep them there. It's disconcerting to try to figure out how to get in line with someone who can't find the line. Altitude control, as well. Then listen. Be on the frequency plenty early to get the jist of what to expect. You'll be fine. Fly the specified speed on the arrival. Gear down leaving RIPON.

Yep!  One time I was following a "Drunk Driver", right, left up 300 down 300.  I just slowed down, had a gap and flew it as it should be. 

Have a printed Notam.  It is common for the controllers to direct you and give you a page number.  Makes it simple!

I think most of it is just good standard piloting.  The exception is the tight base, final turn for 18.  Good time to open the POH and get speeds to avoid being too slow and doing a stall/spin.  Just know the numbers and practice at a safe altitude. 

The other thing is please be ready for curve balls.  One time I got squeezed between a plane ahead of me and a warbirds arrival for 18.  I was told to side step over the taxiway and they will get me back in quickly.  From my experience that sounds like a couple minutes later.  No, I was not even 1/3 of the way down the runway when I was told, ok Mooney make a left turn and follow the warbirds.  So I basically had a pause and a left 360 to go behind the plane that was just behind me.

Another curve ball was when I was on short final for 27 and cleared to land.  The controller told me that my clearance to land was void and to maintain current altitude and heading, the airport is closed.  That was 300 gal and runway heading.  The cause was a aircraft accident just prior to my landing.

Some say to have a copilot.  It sure is nice to have someone cross check and hand you what is needed, but if the person in the copilot seat is not a pilot as well, please instruct on proper scanning for traffic.

Proper preparation and it is no big deal.  Enjoy the show!

 

 

[yvesg]

You should practice rocking the wings at 90 knots. Chances are they will ask you to do this to confirm you are listening.

Yves

[DXB]

Great input here from multiple folks - thanks!

 

[steingar]

Just remember to read and follow the NOTAM.  Just got mine in the mail.  Its free to EAA members.

[Hank]

"in the mail"? I printed mine from the website . . . no waiting.

[AndyFromCB]

Greenbay would be my answer ;-) You can save yourself the hours of sitting in the sun, breathing AvGas fumes, waiting to depart, assuming you can depart from the swamp to begin with. Done it once, never again, it's been Greenbay for a while for me and from now on.

Edited July 7, 2016 by AndyFromCB

[gsxrpilot]

As an airplane owner, I don't understand driving to a fly-in. 

[Bob]

I drove in and camped for many years.  Only a 170 mile drive for me.  Then when I purchased my 231, 6 years ago, have been flying in ever since, except last year when my plane was down.

If you are IFR rated, just get a reservation and come in IFR.  I arrived IFR a couple times and it is very simple!  Much lower workload!

I am fortunate to only have a 50 minute flight to OSH.  A few times I have flown in Saturday or Sunday, set up my campsite, hung out with friends and had beverages for a couple days, departed Tuesday AM and returned Tuesday afternoon with my daughter and enjoyed the rest of the week.  I just print a sign that says ROW#???, hold it up and I am directed back to my camp sight.  So I have been flying into OSH for 5 years now, but have flown in 8 times.

I personally only drive in when I can not fly.    If you drive in you do miss a lot of fun that happens in the evening while camping.

 

[gsxrpilot]

I've wanted to attend Oshkosh for years. I resisted and didn't attend until I was in a position to fly in. It's about 7 hours from Texas, but if I couldn't fly in, I'd stay home.

That's just my $0.02

[steingar]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

"in the mail"? I printed mine from the website . . . no waiting.

Toner and paper cost money, printing it out costs time.  And the little book is way more convenient that loose leaf paper in an envelope, which is how I did it before.

Says me any competent pilot should be able to fly his or her Mooney at 90 knots and land in 1500 feet.  That's PTS standards right there.  Shouldn't need extra practice.  You guys are making way too much out of this.

35 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I've wanted to attend Oshkosh for years. I resisted and didn't attend until I was in a position to fly in. It's about 7 hours from Texas, but if I couldn't fly in, I'd stay home.

That's just my $0.02

I'm with this guy. Id rather drive than not attend, but not bringing in the airplane would sting something fierce when I saw all those other guys bringing theirs in.  

[gsxrpilot]

4 minutes ago, steingar said:

Toner and paper cost money, printing it out costs time.  And the little book is way more convenient that loose leaf paper in an envelope, which is how I did it before.

Printing is so 1990... Download it and have it on the iPad.

[jetdriven]

It's great until you need the iPad to navigate. 

[Hank]

18 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Printing is so 1990... Download it and have it on the iPad.

I can flip paper pages much easier, looking for something I've highlighted that I need to see.

[Bob]

Just now, Hank said:

I can flip paper pages much easier, looking for something I've highlighted that I need to see.

Yes!  I do enjoy the benefits of an electronic flight bag, but the NOTAM for OSH is not the place.  Paper only please!  Highlighting, notes, finding the proper page fast and it also allows you to hold it in front of you so you don't have to look down at the ipad and look away from watching everything else.  Paper allows you the option to have the copilot do the NOTAM workload and "spoon feed" everything to you as you fly the plane and watch for traffic.  Very EZ for Co-pilot to hold up the proper page and point to the info.  All this does is reduce stresses and make your arrival trouble free.

Here is my personal formula that works well for me.

Pilot duties:  Fly the plane, watch for traffic and verify copilot provided information.

Co-Pilot duties:  Serve information to pilot, tune frequencies and watch for traffic.

[gsxrpilot]

On July 8, 2016 at 6:32 AM, Bob said:

Yes!  I do enjoy the benefits of an electronic flight bag, but the NOTAM for OSH is not the place.  Paper only please!  Highlighting, notes, finding the proper page fast and it also allows you to hold it in front of you so you don't have to look down at the ipad and look away from watching everything else.  Paper allows you the option to have the copilot do the NOTAM workload and "spoon feed" everything to you as you fly the plane and watch for traffic.  Very EZ for Co-pilot to hold up the proper page and point to the info.  All this does is reduce stresses and make your arrival trouble free.

Here is my personal formula that works well for me.

Pilot duties:  Fly the plane, watch for traffic and verify copilot provided information.

Co-Pilot duties:  Serve information to pilot, tune frequencies and watch for traffic.

And all of the above can be done on the iPad.  I can mark it up and highlight important sections ahead of time. It's also nice to be able to zoom in to get a better look at things.  And when my co-pilot is manning the iPad, and needs to show me something, he can zoom right in on that specific info making it much easier to read.

Welcome to the 21st century folks... ;-)

[Chocks]

That's absolutely correct. Furthermore, I would argue that it can be accessed twice as fast and within the confines of my 10" tablet.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[201er]

The closest thing to experiencing the FISK arrival is to plow through the traffic pattern of a busy uncontrolled airport on a sunny Sunday with a ton of students in the pattern with your radio switched off.

[DXB]

So...the NOTAM says all non-ads-b aircraft should set transponder to standby within 30nm of RIPON.  Does that mean those of us who have ads-b out can/should leave it at alt encoding?  Is there any advantage to doing so??

[MARZ]

I would suggest watching some of the many YouTube videos showing Oshkosh arrivals, it will give you a good idea of the traffic flow,  I've been four times and honestly  the worst part of the flight in is the convergence at Ripon. It also gives you a good idea of the radio calls