New mooney driver needs Oxygen.

[SkepticalJohn]

I just bought my first mooney, a 1980 m20k 231, and flew her home today. What a neat machine!

Does anyone have a lead on an o2 tank? I was thinking maybe something carbon fiber or aluminum to keep the weight low.

John

[Bob_Belville]

There are several threads here including various ways the cheapskates save of filling their portable bottle. Check out SkyOx @ Sportys.com. You'll at least have a comparison and a list of what accessories you'll need.

 

[peevee]

No on board o2? I thought all the 231 came with o2, or do you need a new on board tank? Ours is a bigger than stock, I think skyox. They're not cheap! 

Edited July 2, 2016 by peevee

[Yetti]

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/doc-bruce-diy-oxygen-system.3399/

[DonMuncy]

You will probably want to go with the type tank your plane came with. My 231 (1982) had a steel one, and it is not too heavy. I replaced it in 2009 with one I got from Aerox. By dropping Dr. Bob's name, they gave me a discount and it still cost $920 or so.

[SkepticalJohn]

2 hours ago, peevee said:

No on board o2? I thought all the 231 came with o2, or do you need a new on board tank? Ours is a bigger than stock, I think skyox. They're not cheap! 

Yes, it has on board o2 but the tank is old and due to be replaced.

[peevee]

28 minutes ago, SkepticalJohn said:

Yes, it has on board o2 but the tank is old and due to be replaced.

Gotcha, the skyox mentioned above is probably as good as any. I'm not sure what the weight savings is on a light weight tank but I'm betting   not enough to justify the cost. 

 

I want to say ours is 120cuft, it lasts for months, literally

Edited July 3, 2016 by peevee

[FlyWalt]

I certainly wish my 231 had come with an o2 system. One day I will make that investment.

[peevee]

4 hours ago, FlyWalt said:

I certainly wish my 231 had come with an o2 system. One day I will make that investment.

Man, it's worth it. I can't imagine having a turbo without it. I really thought it was standard on the k

[rainman]

My 1979 231 did not come with O2 system but was added in 1980 by prior owner. I now have my own refill system not because of cost savings, but because of the hassle of getting oxygen at various FBOs. You also should get a pulse oximeter to know your oxygenation.  There are many cheap, portable, accurate options.  I have the OxiPro which cost about $40.

[peevee]

I'd like a fill system too for the same reason. A fill here is 90 bucks but a hassle 

[Bob_Belville]

Have you seen the thread here on setting up a system?

[DonMuncy]

Setting up a fill system is a bit of a pain, and if not done really well, can get really expensive. I doubt I will recover the costs, but the convenience is well worth it.

[peevee]

Just now, DonMuncy said:

Setting up a fill system is a bit of a pain, and if not done really well, can get really expensive. I doubt I will recover the costs, but the convenience is well worth it.

I figure 350 for the hoses etc and I can't remember what the tank lease was, a couple hundred a year for the biggest guys anyway (2)

 

I think it's worth it for convenience, though I only fill a few times a year. 

 

 

[DonMuncy]

Just now, peevee said:

I figure 350 for the hoses etc and I can't remember what the tank lease was, a couple hundred a year for the biggest guys anyway (2)

 

I think it's worth it for convenience, though I only fill a few times a year. 

 

 

I think you are about right for the stuff. But I would not pay rental on tanks. I would watch Craigslist and buy me one (or a couple).

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, peevee said:

I figure 350 for the hoses etc and I can't remember what the tank lease was, a couple hundred a year for the biggest guys anyway (2)

 

I think it's worth it for convenience, though I only fill a few times a year. 

 

 

I bought a the big tank (150 cf) above from AirGas for $229.60.

The CGA540 to CGA 540 transfill adapter cost $95 from Branton Veterinary Anesthesia Supply.  

Refills (exchange) cost $22. for 150 cf @ 2200 psi 

My on board tank is 24 cf so I can keep it near full pressure for a very long time. (I share with a couple of J owners on the field who are like I am, occasional users) 

No rent, not concern for tank certification which on AirGas

If I were using more O2 I'd get a second tank to be able to cascade but not worth it when the big tank ($22) lasts more than a year 

easy peesy

[peevee]

11 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

I think you are about right for the stuff. But I would not pay rental on tanks. I would watch Craigslist and buy me one (or a couple).

Do you take the tanks in for a refill or do they come out swap them with full ones for you? The BIG tanks are a little hard to fit in my hatchback if I have to take them in.

[peevee]

11 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

I bought a the big tank (150 cf) above from AirGas for $229.60.

The CGA540 to CGA 540 transfill adapter cost $95 from Branton Veterinary Anesthesia Supply.  

Refills (exchange) cost $22. for 150 cf @ 2200 psi 

My on board tank is 24 cf so I can keep it near full pressure for a very long time. (I share with a couple of J owners on the field who are like I am, occasional users) 

No rent, not concern for tank certification which on AirGas

If I were using more O2 I'd get a second tank to be able to cascade but not worth it when the big tank ($22) lasts more than a year 

easy peesy

definitely need two tanks, I think our onboard is 120cu ft or something ridiculous.

[Bob_Belville]

26 minutes ago, peevee said:

definitely need two tanks, I think our onboard is 120cu ft or something ridiculous.

If it really is that big (120cf) it would take a pretty large set up to fill it to 2000 psi! The transfer is simple, connect the tanks, open the valves slowly and the pressure will equalize. An empty 120 cf tank will take a full 150 cf tank down from ~2000 psi to ~1100 psi. A second 150 cf x 2000 psi tank would get your 120 cf tank up to ~1600 psi. A third full supply tank would get you to ~1850, over 90% full.

But you'd only need to refill the first supply tank @ ~$22 and you could maintain your plane's tank at 80+ % for $22/fill. 

AirGas also offers a 300cf tank which might make sense in your case. A full supply tank would bring your half empty aircraft's tank up to ~80% full. As big as you onboard tank is you would not need to get it full if you get home now and then.

[peevee]

Thanks, somewhere at home I have the fill chart, I'll confirm the size 

[SkepticalJohn]

I've been thinking while I'm swapping out my old 76cf steel tank, I'd replace it with a 115cf kevlar tank: 5 lbs lighter 50% more capacity and 5 year intervals on hydro tests = win, win, win. 

I got ahold of the "oxygen lady" at Aerox. She said since the aircraft originally came with 76cf tank I have to put the same size back in it - I could use kevlar but it has to be 76cf. Please excuse my ignorance in this subject but it seems like there should be an STC for this modification? Has anyone successfully up-sized their O2 tank or is the oxygen lady correct? 

[carusoam]

There doesn't seem to be a standard for all gas bottles...

 

Did you get the dimensional drawings for the new vs. the old tank?

1) Length, check to make sure it fits in the given space.

2) Diameter, check to make sure the clamps are appropriate size.

3) Weight, WnB update

4) Valve, details... Can you use your existing tank's valve?

 

PP observations, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[chrisk]

On 7/3/2016 at 5:38 PM, rainman said:

 I now have my own refill system not because of cost savings, but because of the hassle of getting oxygen at various FBOs. You also should get a pulse oximeter to know your oxygenation.  There are many cheap, portable, accurate options.  I have the OxiPro which cost about $40.

I completely agree.  It is so nice to have your own O2 filling station.  --Just imagine if you had to schedule a fill up every time you put gas in the plane.   It's kind of like that with O2.  After every long trip, it's time for a fill up.   It is probably a cost savings too, assuming you sell the fill setup at the end and it remains in good shape.

For tanks, I lease two 330 cf tanks.  As I recall the lease is about $50 per tank, per year.  ABO is about $30 for a tank exchange.  The local shop wanted $65 per fill up of the plane.  A few fill ups in a year, and the filling station pays for it self.

It is a pain to exchange the tanks.  A 330 cf tank is really quite heavy and there is no moving it fast.  I slide them in the back of my SUV and exchange them on the way to work.

[larryb]

I have 3 125 cuft tanks for my transfill system. I picked that tank size because I can move it by myself. Exchange at Airgas is $50. I bought the tanks from them but they are exchanged and not filled. Airgas handles the hydro test on the tanks. It was expensive but worth it for convenience.

[Doggtyred]

On 7/3/2016 at 7:00 PM, DonMuncy said:

Setting up a fill system is a bit of a pain, and if not done really well, can get really expensive. I doubt I will recover the costs, but the convenience is well worth it.

Paying for an oxygen fill or two at some exorbitant price will quickly exceed the cost of doing your own transfilling setup. 3 "M class" cylinders are more than adequate, and 2 would be more than sufficient for most users. I used a 3 bottle and 4 bottle "cascade systems" for breathing air and refilled firefighters breathing apparatus bottles and could refill many bottles in the field (and most of them held more cubic feet than the typical aviators tank. 

 

On 7/15/2016 at 1:04 PM, carusoam said:

There doesn't seem to be a standard for all gas bottles...

 

Did you get the dimensional drawings for the new vs. the old tank?

1) Length, check to make sure it fits in the given space.

2) Diameter, check to make sure the clamps are appropriate size.

3) Weight, WnB update

4) Valve, details... Can you use your existing tank's valve?

 

PP observations, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

There are tons and tons of standards out there.. for tanks..fittings.. hoses.. threads.... but the standards are proprietary, and belong to the Compressed Gas Association. They share standards with their members. Membership is pricey. Even by aviation standards. 

If this was an experimental rig, I'd say get a mid life firefighters composite wrapped aluminum cylinder, get it hydro'd and inspected, and change the valve stem to the proper CGA fitting for an oxygen tank, and then go with the Mountain Home pulsed system - in panel.

But for certified, perhaps you can get the tank from Mountain High and do a 337 to put one of their modern tanks in the place where the old one was? Its mentioned that field approvals have been done in the past using their equipment. Mountain High might be of assistance on this. It would be awesome if their "built in" system (tank, panel indicator, everything) could be 337'd but starting with a substitution tank MIGHT be workable depending on how friendly your local FAA directorate is..