Mission Question

[Danny]

Hi folks,

New to the board. I've been searching for the right airplane for my mission which will primarily be a 2000' MSL foothills airport to SFO and return. Although I like Bellanca Vikings and think they're a fantastic value for the money, 150 KTAS just isn't that great for longer trips out west. And if I'm going to feed a 300 horse motor, I'd like something a little bit closer to 200 knots.  

I find myself self drawn to the M20K. I'm going to go look at this 231:

http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1331145/1980-mooney-m20k-231

The price is very nice, and I like the idea of a fresh Western Airways overhaul. I am slightly non-plused about the reason (The obvious one) for that overhaul and propellor replacement. The radios in this jet are also in need of some modernization, so the low price is of course, somewhat offset by that reality. 

Part of me wonders if I should be looking at a newer, faster Mooney, with the idea being it will be a little easier to get *most* of my AMU's back for whatever airplane comes after. 

I'm very curious to hear the hive wisdom here. Also, my Mooney time is limited to the old C model with the manual gear. I would love the opportunity to fly a 231. If anybody here is in the Houston or Santa Monica area, I'd love to see your airplane and would be more than happy to pay for the gas, overhaul reserve and treat for lunch if we were to go aviating  

Sorry if that's too bold, I know it's better to wait for an invite. If you're in Houston, I'm happy to take you out in the J-3 and let you steer. (EYQ)

Edited June 1, 2016 by Danny

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Danny...

tell us about your flying experience.

Update your avatar with some details.

It is difficult to recommend powerful traveling machines without knowing something about your background.

 

Best regards,

-a-

[Danny]

I own a 1940 J-3 Cub. I have a pretty good smattering of GA experience, a lot of it antiques and tailwheel. Quite a bit instructing. 

My day job is airline captain. Eighty hours a month in the system, most of it with the autopilot engaged. And the rest trying to fly as if the autopilot were engaged. (To paraphrase Dick Bach) Please don't hold it against me. The more I learn about aviation and the more I practice this art, the more I realize how little I know and how much room for improvement there always is. I just love airplanes and the people who fly them.

I would maintain a high degree of instrument currency in a Mooney, but would be very hesitant to fly it at night or in actual IMC unless the risks were very carefully analyzed first. I used to fly a lot of single pilot IMC, but all these years of having at least two of everything have made me a little risk averse. I've had four engine failures in 16,000 hours of flying. (Paradoxically, only one of those was in a single engine airplane!) Real world recency of experience might erode my discomfort. 

I'm a total novice to complex airplane ownership, most of my decisions involving the Cub concern things like bungee cords, not turbocharger overhauls. I welcome any and all advice you folks feel inclined to provide. 

[TWinter]

Welcome and sounds like you have a done some research.. I guess I'll be the rude one and ask what's the min budget and top budget. It will give the MS folks an idea of what we've seen on the market vs. what you are looking at. Some of the MSpacers keep a good eye on the market and we always like helping to spend someone's money other than our own..so what the budget, what do we have to work with?  

 

-Tom

[Danny]

Not rude at all. The budget probably tops out around 200 AMU. The Cub is paid for and the kids are out if the house and in a nice, inexpensive state school. 

While I'd like to keep the note payment low, I feel like there's a tipping point between having a really nice airplane I don't have to spend money upgrading, and having a lower note where I'm shelling out money every month for the goodies I want. Stormscope, drum altimeter, radar altimeter, new paint, blah, blah, blah. 

[carusoam]

Danny,

We often get the same question worded similarly coming from people with no time whatsoever.

The M20K and Bravo have a natural appeal to many people that are looking for fast factory built, four seat airplanes that meet their budget.

The K is an amazing, powerful, complex, speedster that is good for XC travel in IMC and has the ability to hop over tall clouds when needed.

You may want to study the options that are available as the K itself evolved over time up to the 252.  It has been mimicked pretty well by the 262 and may have gained an extra skill with the Rocket version.

the ultimate traveling Mooney will also have de-icing equipment.  FIKI systems are available on a small number of the more modern Ks and Long Bodies.

Know what a PPI is all about.  The plane you are looking at is advertising a recent OH of the engine.  And the price of the plane is slightly higher than the cost of a factory reman of the engine.   Could be a bargain...

Best regards,

-a-

[Danny]

I know, that price point with a WA overhaul really soothes any objections I might have to the gear up. So, what relationship does the producer price index have to the used airplane market?

The thing I like about that K is that for 150-160, I could have exactly the airplane I wanted in terms of equipment, color, etc. 

[carusoam]

Pre-purchase Inspection, by a qualified mechanic/shop.  There isn't an FAA standard for this.

(not to be confused with the economist's producer price index PPI...)

The economy discussion is going on in another thread with the oil industry and unemployment numbers this week.

Best regards,

-a-

[N201MKTurbo]

Hi Denny,

I've been playing around with a Rocket lately. If you only need a two seater, it is an awesome airplane. My friend just did a field approved mod to add 120 # to the tail, so now you can land it with two fingers, but it has no payload. We took it up to 17000 and it was doing 220KTS on 18 GPH.

[Danny]

Ah, I'm a huge advocate of repurchase inspections. Insane that anybody would spend airplane money on the basis of some anonymous person's signature in a logbook. 

[gsengle]

Welcome! At that price point and being out west I'd be looking at K models, particularly the later Encore models with 28v electrical systems... The Bravos (M20M) seem a relative bargain these days but are thirsty, and I love the Ovation (M20R), but it pushes the budget and I would go with a turbo out west...

Many of the Ms and Rs have a lot of redundant systems as well, which you might like, especially those fiki equipped... That said I've had many people say they consider the K just about the best Mooney ever built...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ArtVandelay]

Hi Denny,

I've been playing around with a Rocket lately. If you only need a two seater, it is an awesome airplane. My friend just did a field approved mod to add 120 # to the tail, so now you can land it with two fingers, but it has no payload. We took it up to 17000 and it was doing 220KTS on 18 GPH.

Why not move the batteries further aft imstead? Maybe more expensive to add a door?

[Hank]

1 hour ago, teejayevans said:

Why not move the batteries further aft imstead? Maybe more expensive to add a door?

The ones I've heard added a support inside to slide the batteries into place or up toothed existing tailcone access, not adding another door near the tail.

[Mcoyne34]

http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1314651/1997-mooney-m20m-bravo?dlr=1&pcid=17527&sfc=0&ssc=0&src=0&sps=0&ftr=0

 

If I were looking for 200kts around the $200k range, I'd go for this. It's been for sale for a bit, maybe there's some wiggle room. 

[carusoam]

The Bravo is really nice...

Compare with an O while you are looking.

This one is owned by a known Mooniac...

 

[kris_adams]

8 hours ago, Danny said:

I find myself self drawn to the M20K. I'm going to go look at this 231:

http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1331145/1980-mooney-m20k-231

 

If I read this correct, it has 65 hours since 2008...sure hope the engine was pickled if it wasn't run for years. There are a lot smarter people than me here but I'm sure that is a reason for a really thorough inspection.  Most of us try to do that on a bad year... Good luck!

[Mcstealth]

10 hours ago, Danny said:

Hi folks,

New to the board. I've been searching for the right airplane for my mission which will primarily be a 2000' MSL foothills airport to SFO and return. Although I like Bellanca Vikings and think they're a fantastic value for the money, 150 KTAS just isn't that great for longer trips out west. And if I'm going to feed a 300 horse motor, I'd like something a little bit closer to 200 knots.  

I

Flying by yourself? Significant Other? How many lbs do you project. How far is your trip? I don't know how far the foot hills are from SFO.

 

DF

[bonal]

37 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

Flying by yourself? Significant Other? How many lbs do you project. How far is your trip? I don't know how far the foot hills are from SFO.

 

DF

Perhaps he means the foothills to the Sierras in that case around 150 to 200 miles

[Danny]

1 hour ago, Mcstealth said:

Flying by yourself? Significant Other? How many lbs do you project. How far is your trip? I don't know how far the foot hills are from SFO.

 

DF

Myself for the commute, (100nm) SO for pleasure trips. PSP, TRM, PDX, SEA, MMH, GCN, etc.

[Geoff]

Danny,

I fly a 231 and live in Houston.  Happy to talk specifics or go flying if we you can make it stop raining here. 

- Geoff. 

[M20F]

Decide if you like O2 or not because you aren't doing 200kts without it.  

[Raptor05121]

On 6/1/2016 at 2:47 PM, Danny said:

I know, that price point with a WA overhaul really soothes any objections I might have to the gear up.

Don't let a geared-up Mooney turn you off. I'd wager that more than 50% of the 11,000+ airplanes made have been geared-up. They are (relatively) easy to fix compared to other planes, usually a one-piece belly pan and engine tear down and the brunt of it. If a MSC has seen it after its gear-up, you might be alright. Plus, it helps the wager.

[Mcstealth]

On Thursday, June 02, 2016 at 0:52 AM, Danny said:

Myself for the commute, (100nm) SO for pleasure trips. PSP, TRM, PDX, SEA, MMH, GCN, etc.

Well. For that distance, anything you decide on will be overkill. The wonderful C model will do you just fine but if you must have a K model, go for the 252. Better yet, get the Encore. Even better, buy Lances' Ovation that he has listed on this board and help a fellow Mooneyspacer out.

 

[Pritch]

Hello Danny,  I fly a K model around the coast range of Norcal.  Its a great flying plane, yrs ago I had a 63C which was great but this is better.  I know a little about the plane in Truckee. If you want to pm me I can give you a little more background on it.  It is nice having the turbo when flying in and around the Sierras and Coast Range.  When I did my check out we went from Lakeport to Sac to Truckee to Reno Stead to Redbluff and back to Lakeport and never had any problems climbing out.  Below is a view of Mt Shasta while flying around Weaverville.

Pritch

[Danny]

Thank you so much to all of the folks who responded to my questions. I realize the leg length of my primary mission is a bit short for a 231, but it's the other "off-duty" flying I have planned that requires the higher/faster capabilities. I also think the Mooney mixes up with the SFO traffic a little better than something like a Cessna 170 would.

I'll keep everybody updated on my progress and decisions as I go, even if it turns out to be a non-Kerrvllle product.

Blue Skies!