Will Samurai Husky pass his checkride?

[carusoam]

So many people use an oximeter they have become low cost and available every where.

Nice oximeters have a simple display with both O2 and HR displays.  More expensive ones will graph (temporarily) what it is seeing regarding your heart rate.  This is helpful when trying to tell if the oximeter is really reading anything.  A reading may take a few seconds to read properly under ordinary conditions.  Temperature and other things can make it difficult to get a reading....

Another fun self monitoring device for getting to know you while flying is a Fitbit with a heart rate monitor.  It is connected to your phone via wifi and graphs your entire day.  You may find that your rate is increased a bit while flying.  It is possible to have a great aerobic work out while you fly.  Since it is a challenge to over eat while flying, you may be losing weight while you do it....

the fitbit makes a nice sports watch.  It's sensor is LED powered looking through the skin.

the oximeter is a finger tip mounted device.  It's sensor is also LED powered looking through a fingernail.

It would be really nice if the Iwatch or Fitbit could perform the oximeter task as well.

My research in this area is a bit old.  There may have been improvements over the last year or two...

let us know what you find....

PP ideas only, I am not a fitness guru.

Best regards,

-a-

if using Amazon to purchase these items...  Consider supporting the Gilliland fund.  (Mike Elliot's project to support Mooney Pilots with challenges.)

[Danb]

Anthony I think it's coming, now that the iPhone has an oximeter I expect they will have an app along with there watch.

sam I have a nonex and two Walgreens brand oximeters, the Walgreens are down to around 30-40 bucks, not bad. A few yrs ago my first one was around $150 there coming down. 

[rbridges]

Have you thought about going early in the day?  I routinely fly 6-8000 ft on a longer flight, but you'll have several descents and landings on your XC. 

[Samurai Husky]

I cant, i need to save my PTO time for the week of the check ride. As it is i am taking a half day off to do this.

Right now the legs look like this: 73, 92, 71. I need this to take 3 hours otherwise i need to go out on a 3rd XC, so i think climbing is a good excuse to burn time.  

[bonal]

Another reason why a 150 or 72 makes sense they make great time builders 

[Yetti]

1950 and 19" makes a mooney a nice time builder  you can stay up for 9 and half hours...

[Hank]

3 hours ago, Samurai Husky said:

I cant, i need to save my PTO time for the week of the check ride. As it is i am taking a half day off to do this.

Right now the legs look like this: 73, 92, 71. I need this to take 3 hours otherwise i need to go out on a 3rd XC, so i think climbing is a good excuse to burn time.  

My Long XC was 300+ nm, specifically to complete all of my required XC time. Had the Dual, the Night, the Short and the Long XCs, one of each, and they added up to the required 10? hours (I don't recall, it was March '07, and I bought the Mooney that June and began working in more insurance dual).

But you're getting close to done! Congratulations on that. I hope your flying has improved and matured as much as your views expressed on this forum. It's been kinda cool watching the changes as you developed experience and insight.

[Samurai Husky]

I have 9 hrs PIC right now; I need 3 more hours of XC (5hrs total); I have 2 hrs hobbs (thats what they use right?) in my last XC. So yea, from a FAA standpoint i will be done with all of my requirements after this. I have to meet the clubs expectations prior though. I will talk to my CFI about it. I still cant do a right hand steep turn within regs..... I always end up low. So i think there will be some more PIC time in there of just steep turns. 

Here's a question. Prior to rolling into the turn, If i trim back and push forward will i feel the load on the stick decrease as i slow down and start dropping? I dont know if I am explaining that right. The logic is, when i roll into the turn, at some point i need to start pulling back and keep pulling back in order to maintain level flight. By the time i am about 3/4 around i have a good 25lbs of back pressure on the stick. 

If i trim back and push forward so that i am providing say 15lbs of forward pressure during the turn, will i feel the pressure slowly release though the turn, which would be a good indication that i will need to start pulling back more?  I realize that rolling out i will need to be extra careful as there is the chance of ballooning depending on how far its trimmed back, which is why i am choosing something in the middle. Depending on how hot it is and if i hit a thermal, i am normally about 125ft-300ft off (300ft is when i fly over a lake or something and the thing just drops); some times i can do 1 with in regs. but its rare. I just dont have the confidence to pull one off on the day of the test.  

[carusoam]

I was taught...

The C152 had visual references.  Set the bank, add the power and the trim.  The designated check airman demonstrated this on my check ride....  With the proper power and trim the steep turns were done hands off, by the check airman.  Flew the 360° bumped through the wake and set up for the other direction...

That lesson cost me another hour of training.... And the re-do with the check airman to re-cover the art of steep turns...

it's amazing how well a thirty year old bird can fly in the right hands.  It was really the correct brain attached to those hands...

use the thoughts...it's not the bird.  And, it's not that challenging.  You do need to know the exact procedure because the plane will not stay on altitude if you don't make immediate adjustments.  The power usually goes in as the plane bank goes through 30° Of bank.  Too soon the plane climbs, too late the plane sinks.  The right amount of power is most likely weight related but there are guidelines to be followed.

review with your CFI before getting in the plane.  Read and memorize the procedure as it pertains to your plane.  Schools must love this procedure because it is all theory that gets applied.  There are so many opportunities to screw this up....  Setting and holding the bank.  Starting and stopping the turn.  Trim up, trim down.  Power in, power out.  The visual cues for going left are different than visual cues for going right.  Right hand steep turns you look down on the instructor.  Left turns you will be looking up at him.  A feeling you don't get in an automobile! 

If you are talking the whole time using verbal mediation... Saying out loud each step you make before you actually do it..  

Do you hope for a windy choppy day?

Good luck.  It is proof that you are human!

best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

I learned in a 172, which flies considerably different from your plane.

The trim wheel stuck partially out of the panel. I would align myself on a prominent landmark, note the DG, roll into a 45° bank, level the yoke,mthen pull the trim full stroke down twice (Trim wheel down = Nose Up). Whirl around the first 360° (often Left first), roll wings level using about the last 15-20° of the 360 while pushing forward to hold altitude, then bank 45° the other way. Roll wings level again on heading, pointing at the landmark, pushing forward on the yoke, then reach up and take out the two turns of trim.

This was much easier than trying to hold Up Elevator all the way around, that's just asking for trouble. Find out how much trim you need to fly level in a 45° bank, and apply it after establishing the turn. It will be more difficult to repeat with electric trim, I hope your Trim Indicator is easy to spot, and it doesn't move too slow.

Unlike Anthony, I don't remember adding any power, just lots of trim (part of the difference between 152 & 172 maybe). Make sure you are below Va, and do your clearing turns to make sure your practice airspace is clear.

[carusoam]

With two people in the C152 we were at max gross. The addition of power was a small amount like an inch of MP.  The same two tugs on the trim wheel.  Know the starting speed, power setting and level trim before starting the maneuver...it helps to know the cardinal points of the compass and landmarks on the ground that you can pick out easily.

A great demonstration of multi-tasking.  Looking inside for the DG and altimeter and outside because the horizon is your best friend....

trying to do it without the trim is a seesaw event.  You get behind the airplane and it becomes obvious that your trying to use muscles to do the work of the trim...

I'm still not a CFI, this could be less than what you need to know....

Best regards,

-a-

[Samurai Husky]

Its electric trim and incredibly sensitive and the trim levels are behind the stick, so they are not the easiest to see; So i have 0 chance of setting it while in the turn. I wish it had a trim wheel because i think i would get a lot more feedback from that then a tiny little multi-directional switch. Basic example below, through its from the right seat. I never tried trimming it out before, I have always mussel it; So it will be interesting to see if i can trim prior to rolling in and seeing if that makes a difference. 

 

Per the instructions i enter in at 65% power and 120kts. I get about 3/4 around and things go fubar from there. IDK, i will try it again out in the Tracy area, maybe it will be easier out there. My only problem is, i dont know where the DME will tell me to do it. If its over LVK then im hosed. 

[Guest Mike261]

Sam,

Try this...

do some turns in one direction and keep it going. don't worry about your cardinal direction, just blow right through it and go around 2 or 3 times. Use trim or don't your preference. learn the site picture, and the control forces necessary. find a bolt or rivet or even a knob on a radio or an imperfection on the windscreen to use as a reference. if you are flying near the ocean like i do the horizon to the east is the best reference to use to figure out the reference. (for you on the left coast this would be reversed.) if your bank is consistent and you are holding the altitude it will be the same every time. Start with a left turn...then do the right, the picture is different.

I'm working on my ATP now and have been practicing 60 degree steep turns, lazy eights chandelles and such for a couple of hours. I did this last week, and got the site picture down fairly quickly...now its just a matter of execution.

best of luck

Mike

[Skates97]

I can't relate to turns in a Cirrus, but in the Cherokee I don't use the trim. I just roll into the turn and watch the horizon and go by the feel in the seat. I glance down every now and then to make sure I'm not losing/gaining altitude but as long as I'm looking out the windscreen at the horizon I do all right. If I try looking down to the left (left hand turn) or right (right hand turn) I start to shallow out my turn. If I'm looking inside at the instruments too much I start trying to chase them and get way off.

The first time I did steep turns I think I went around 3-4 times each direction without coming out of the bank, it really helped to get a feel for how it "feels" in the turn. I agree with what Mike says, don't worry about your heading, just go around a few times in one direction and get a feel for it.

[carusoam]

Great notes sharing gents!

The 2g seat of the pants feel of 60° bank is cool.

Best regards,

-a-

[Samurai Husky]

I tried going around several times the last time i went out; Except about half way though the second turn the wing dropped and for some reason i thought i was entering a spin; I asked my instructor and I was doing 105knts when i looked down. He said i wasnt stalled and so wasnt entering a spin; He didnt have an explanation on why the wing dropped. What ever it was, it freaked me out.

After that happen i tried one more time and gave up because it was too busy. After watching that video, im always a little paranoid when i feel the wing drop for what ever the random reason is.

 IDK, maybe i will get a gopro tomorrow and show you all what it looks like. I wonder if i can have my checkride done out in the middle of nowhere, Like Modesto. That would take a million things off my mind with the crazyness of the bay area. 

[DXB]

On 6/24/2016 at 11:21 PM, Samurai Husky said:

 

 

 

 

 

I must marvel for a moment at what a different primary training experience this must be from my own, which was actually pretty recent.  My solo cross countries were done in a beat up '75 Warrior with no autopilot or GPS, staring at my timer, nervously fidgeting with my paper sectionals  and flight log, worrying about stumbling into the Bravo surrounding my home field. Taking selfies with the autopilot on GPSS mode while sitting in a plush cockpit in front of all that glass seems like a completely different world. Similar tools in my '68C seemed  miraculous after I had them put in.

I've never been in a Cirrus so have no real opinion at all on it as a training platform.  I'm imagine there's pluses an minuses. Heck I didn't even know how to use Foreflight (or similar) when I finished- I'm sure you'll be eons ahead of me there when you finish.  As for pilotage, dead reckoning, and radio navigation skills, I have no idea- it's not like I feel great at any of these things now.  I just carry a backup 2nd ipad 

[Danb]

Dev it seems good that the students are keeping up with technology,but IMO they should,as Sam is, work quite a bit on simple pilotage and stick and rudder skills as you did. I wouldn't be surprised if the DPE took away the screens and have the student pilot the plane by seat of the pants, that's the way it is in the real world, get in the flat lands in a j3 cub and tell the pilot change of plans my stomachs sick take me to kxxx about 60 nm to the north, hand him a sectional and sit back. I'm still looking for Kroelingers field I think 29N on my check ride, I was cover top of it when he pulled back on the power and I found it for my forced landing. He said he would of failed me if I didn't find it in the emergency. I really never saw it until down to 900 ft. but I didn't tell him, got lucky that day.

 

[Dave Colangelo]

10 hours ago, Samurai Husky said:

I tried going around several times the last time i went out; Except about half way though the second turn the wing dropped and for some reason i thought i was entering a spin; I asked my instructor and I was doing 105knts when i looked down. He said i wasnt stalled and so wasnt entering a spin; He didnt have an explanation on why the wing dropped. What ever it was, it freaked me out.

After that happen i tried one more time and gave up because it was too busy. After watching that video, im always a little paranoid when i feel the wing drop for what ever the random reason is.

 IDK, maybe i will get a gopro tomorrow and show you all what it looks like. I wonder if i can have my checkride done out in the middle of nowhere, Like Modesto. That would take a million things off my mind with the crazyness of the bay area. 

I don't mean to contradict your instructor but you my friend, stalled. On of the most common misconceptions is that aircraft are not stalling if they have sufficient air speed. This is largely incorrect (mostly at the fault of how its often explained to people). Air speed can be used as an indicator of stalling but there are other factors in play. Strictly speaking a wing stalls when it exceeds it critical angle of attack this can happen at any airspeed. While you will stall if you attempt to maintain level flight beneath the stall speed you can also stall at other speeds. One of the explanations for your wing drop has to do with how the wings are mounted on modern airplanes (dihedral). The wing dihedral leads to the wings having different angles of attack (especially in a turn) which can lead to a single wing stall and subsequent wing drop. 

 

Keep up the good work you will get there, steep turns can be tough (took me a while to master them). 

 

Regards 

Dave

[rainman]

Oxipro pulse oximeter is about $30-40. Very accurate, small, fits on your finger.

[carusoam]

Now that somebody mentioned that...  Steep turns and slow flight don't mix very well!

Some things to consider...

 

1) wing cuffs on a portion of the Cirrus may allow for a less abrupt stall.

2) accelerated stalls are usually covered with a CFI.  These are stalls that occur while the plane is in a bank.

3) how to recognize stall before they occur is a typical topic of pre-solo flight.

4) stalls at traffic pattern altitude may be difficult to recover from.

5) turns that are out of coordination can lead to spins... Rudder and ball...

6) check the chart for stall speed vs Bank Angle (and weight and flap position.)

7) Get a good feeling of how this works.  Traffic patterns are pretty slow and typical bank angles can increase stall speeds above your airspeed.

8) keeping the nose low attitude can help.  A reflexive Pulling back on the yoke can be really bad.

9) use a safe altitude for slow flight, steep banks, or stall experiments.

10) You can't spin unless you have stalled.  There won't be a spin if you stay coordinated.

11) at 105KIAS, at what bank angle does a stall occur? 

12) Sam, post the stall speeds for level flight, 45° bank, 60° bank if you would be so kind?

 

I'm no CFI, but you guys got me thinking.

Best regards,

-a-

[Samurai Husky]

57 minutes ago, rainman said:

Oxipro pulse oximeter is about $30-40. Very accurate, small, fits on your finger.

I ended up getting teh Acc U Rate® Premium; It was the only thing in stock close enough to get today. The ones at CVS and Walgreens were slammed in revies for being in accurate. This one cost $24 plus $5 shipping from amazon.

 

1 hour ago, Dave Colangelo said:

I don't mean to contradict your instructor but you my friend, stalled. 

Ok; I am always coordinated, so i dont think i would have entered a spin; there was also no buffeting which i am normally used to feeling. Either way without thinking i acted appropriately, released pressure on the stick to drop the nose, left rudder (opposite) wings level, full power, pull up to level. It wasnt super smooth, but the steps were right. 

 

[Mcoyne34]

1 hour ago, Samurai Husky said:

 

Ok; I am always coordinated, so i dont think i would have entered a spin; there was also no buffeting which i am normally used to feeling. Either way without thinking i acted appropriately, released pressure on the stick to drop the nose, left rudder (opposite) wings level, full power, pull up to level. It wasnt super smooth, but the steps were right. 

 

I'm sure someone might correct me on this, but I thought a spin could be entered during steep turns even if the turn is coordinated. Airspeed is key during steep turns. Increased bank angle increases stall speed due to increased Gs. 

[mike_elliott]

22 hours ago, carusoam said:

So many people use an oximeter they have become low cost and available every where.

Nice oximeters have a simple display with both O2 and HR displays.  More expensive ones will graph (temporarily) what it is seeing regarding your heart rate.  This is helpful when trying to tell if the oximeter is really reading anything.  A reading may take a few seconds to read properly under ordinary conditions.  Temperature and other things can make it difficult to get a reading....

Another fun self monitoring device for getting to know you while flying is a Fitbit with a heart rate monitor.  It is connected to your phone via wifi and graphs your entire day.  You may find that your rate is increased a bit while flying.  It is possible to have a great aerobic work out while you fly.  Since it is a challenge to over eat while flying, you may be losing weight while you do it....

the fitbit makes a nice sports watch.  It's sensor is LED powered looking through the skin.

the oximeter is a finger tip mounted device.  It's sensor is also LED powered looking through a fingernail.

It would be really nice if the Iwatch or Fitbit could perform the oximeter task as well.

My research in this area is a bit old.  There may have been improvements over the last year or two...

let us know what you find....

PP ideas only, I am not a fitness guru.

Best regards,

-a-

if using Amazon to purchase these items...  Consider supporting the Gilliland fund.  (Mike Elliot's project to support Mooney Pilots with challenges.)

Here is the one I buy a lot of (and give them to new transition students that get turbo Mooneys )

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0117V8Q2O/ref=sr_ph_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1467055354&sr=1&keywords=pulse+oximeter

cheap, they work.

Oh, thanks for the plug, Anthony. Search for the Mooney Summit and set that as your charity, then when you order from smile.amazon.com (same as amazon.com, but it invokes a .5 percent charitable donation we use to help downed Mooney pilots' families with. We have offered support to 7 families so far since last summer,

[Lance Keve]

My boys got this for me last Christmas:

http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/oxi-plus-pro-pulse-oximeter.html

Hitting the power button jumps the display from how it is shown in the picture, to sideways, then upside down, then the other side, then upright again.  So 4 ways to view as well as 10 brightness settings. 

Used it in the past two weeks when at 9,500 and 11,500.  Sure enough, being a low-lander (coastal MA), I could see the O2 levels down from where they are normally.  And surprisingly, just a bit of increased frequency of deeper breathing had the number back up to upper 90's.

Regards,

Lance