HRM Posted May 28, 2016 Report Share Posted May 28, 2016 I have for many, many years ranted that the most misused word in America is the word free. When I was younger I was quick to jump on salespeople who would say '...and you get a free ______ with that.' So whatever it is you were getting wasn't quite free because it came with a condition. Now I am reading up on the STRATUS 2S and the following from the description at Sporty's raised my 'free' alarm: Get subscription-free weather, GPS information, ADS-B traffic and backup attitude – all integrated with ForeFlight Mobile. Frankly, I think once 2020 rolls around flying (without fees) will be the next thing to go in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted May 28, 2016 Report Share Posted May 28, 2016 17 minutes ago, HRM said: I have for many, many years ranted that the most misused word in America is the word free. When I was younger I was quick to jump on salespeople who would say '...and you get a free ______ with that.' So whatever it is you were getting wasn't quite free because it came with a condition. Now I am reading up on the STRATUS 2S and the following from the description at Sporty's raised my 'free' alarm: Get subscription-free weather, GPS information, ADS-B traffic and backup attitude – all integrated with ForeFlight Mobile. Frankly, I think once 2020 rolls around flying (without fees) will be the next thing to go in the US. Well, "subscription free" is a feature of getting weather via something like a GDL 88 vs. XM. I haven't calculated it but I suppose I've saved a nice portion of the GDL 88 investment when I was able to drop XM weather on the GPS 696 in favor of NEXRAD and more on the GTN750. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaV8or Posted May 28, 2016 Report Share Posted May 28, 2016 Frank Zappa defined free for me decades ago in his song "Teenage Wind". "Free is when you don't have to do nuthin', or pay for nuthin'. We want to be free. Free as the wind." http://genius.com/Frank-zappa-teen-age-wind-lyrics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted May 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 10 hours ago, DaV8or said: "Free is when you don't have to do nuthin', or pay for nuthin'. We want to be free. Free as the wind." Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted May 29, 2016 Report Share Posted May 29, 2016 11 hours ago, HRM said: I Now I am reading up on the STRATUS 2S and the following from the description at Sporty's.... I don't know why you're researching the Stratus, but if you're in the market for a mobile ADS-B receiver that doesn't have AHRS you can buy a kit version for $200-250. Kit assembles in minutes. If interested they have a few videos on Youtube.https://www.openflightsolutions.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 I believe the tax payers and aviation fee payers have paid for the ADSB-in data. Therefore it isn't really free if you pay taxes, or buy avfuel. It is nice not to have to pay for the info twice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 I have for many, many years ranted that the most misused word in America is the word free. When I was younger I was quick to jump on salespeople who would say '...and you get a free ______ with that.' So whatever it is you were getting wasn't quite free because it came with a condition. Now I am reading up on the STRATUS 2S and the following from the description at Sporty's raised my 'free' alarm: Get subscription-free weather, GPS information, ADS-B traffic and backup attitude – all integrated with ForeFlight Mobile. Frankly, I think once 2020 rolls around flying (without fees) will be the next thing to go in the US. I think we think about infrastructure the wrong way, just because we have to pay for it somehow, doesn't mean it doesn't have a positive cost benefit analysis. Imagine our economy without interstates - believe me they pay for themselves. Ditto public schools, firehouses and police. Ditto GPS satellites. ADS-B will allow our crowded commercial airspace to have higher capacity while allowing significant fuel savings. It will easily pay for itself at the macro level. This is quite separate for how the government decides to fund it. ADS-B in was designed to both enhance safety while providing a carrot for airspace user equippage... The technology isn't set up to charge for at a user level. And none of this stuff would get done if left to private industry. Some things require collective investment. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted June 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 31 minutes ago, gsengle said: I think we think about infrastructure the wrong way, just because we have to pay for it somehow, doesn't mean it doesn't have a positive cost benefit analysis. Imagine our economy without interstates - believe me they pay for themselves. Ditto public schools, firehouses and police. Ditto GPS satellites. You missed my point. Free means free, period. What invariably happens after a fee is imposed is that the bureaucracy begins to expand to fill the space and the fees just go up and up. I think GA should ride free on the tails of commercial aviation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Nothing in the universe is free. As Einstein said, there is no free lunch. I get your point, but from a user perspective, which is what their point was, it is "free" in contrast to a subscription service like XM. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Just now, gsengle said: Nothing in the universe is free. As Einstein said, there is no free lunch. I get your point, but from a user perspective, which is what their point was, it is "free" in contrast to a subscription service like XM. Agreed... I don't think the problem is the use of the word "free", but rather the unrealistic interpretation of the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Yeah we would be well served not to talk about free healthcare or free interstates or free ADS-B generally, we should sell them as smart public investment. If they are smart investments great. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Not sure if it was a joke or not, but it was Milton Friedman who said "There is no such thing as a free lunch". I'm in the minority here who does not believe that we will be hit by user fees anytime soon. Here at MS we had this argument back in 2010, where some were saying we were only months away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 (edited) TANSTAAFL. "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch." They are words to live by . . . Edited June 5, 2016 by Hank 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain%27t_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpg Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 40 minutes ago, Hank said: TANSTAAFL. "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch." They are words to live by . . . What if I take you to a diner and buy a lunch for to enjoy,, gratis... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted June 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 2 hours ago, mpg said: What if I take you to a diner and buy a lunch for to enjoy,, gratis... Exactly! There is a free lunch,but often I get junk mail that offers me a "free steak dinner" if I listen to a spiel about retirement investing or some other nonsense. This is not free because it comes with a catch. That is my beef, the "free" with a catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Then I had better enjoy your company! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 18 minutes ago, HRM said: Exactly! There is a free lunch,but often I get junk mail that offers me a "free steak dinner" if I listen to a spiel about retirement investing or some other nonsense. This is not free because it comes with a catch. That is my beef, the "free" with a catch. Plus, this "free" requires not only your time for the sales pitch, but also that you provide your own transportation to the meeting location and away again. Also not free . . . To say nothing of the cost if you actually purchase something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Gravel Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 TANSTAAFL: Great words from a great writer. He used a whole bunch of little bits of wisdom between chapters in one of his larger novels (Time Enough for Love?) (Methusala's Children?). This was one of them. My favourite is the following: "All laws are written for the protection of pregnant women and children. Everything else is superfluous." He was my favourite author as I went through college. OK - Off my soap box now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 RAH, "Time Enough for Love." I discovered him in high school, great books! Those little collections between the chapters were later published as "Excerpts From the Notebooks of Lazarus Long," or something similar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Gravel Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 Thanks Hank. Brings back good memories. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRM Posted June 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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