M20K useful load

[pkofman]

2 quick questions , I'm sure someone here will have an experienced answer.. 1986 m20k ( i used to own one )..the one i say the other day was really well equipped. but the useful load is on 608 lbs... i think that is very low for a m20k... ( the plane has long range tanks 120gl ... so that i dont think you could even take full fuel with 2 people... it also has an older kfc 200..... thoughts??

[Ron McBride]

You might get the plane reweighed, and is the plane eligible for the Encore upgrade.

At 600#'s in my opinion, it is not usable.  120 gallons of gas is 720#'s.

Ron

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, pkofman said:

2 quick questions , I'm sure someone here will have an experienced answer.. 1986 m20k ( i used to own one )..the one i say the other day was really well equipped. but the useful load is on 608 lbs... i think that is very low for a m20k... ( the plane has long range tanks 120gl ... so that i dont think you could even take full fuel with 2 people... it also has an older kfc 200..... thoughts??

I'm thinking there's a typo. The 608# is surely not possible as total useful load or as usable with full fuel. It looks more like a number for usable with standard fuel (75 gallons).

The book Useful Load was 1100 pounds. With 75 gallons = 450 # comes to 650 #. Close!

The 120 gallon LR tanks are for 1 or 2 people. Not an uncommon mission in a Mooney.

http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft performance/Mooney/49.htm 

[Piloto]

Useful Load = Fuel + Passengers + Cargo

Payload = Useful Load - Fuel

Some mistake Payload for Useful Load.

José

[kortopates]

That was my thought as well, that it must be payload to be only 608Lbs. But even that is too good to be true for a '86 - which came standards with every possible option including built-in O2, speed brakes, standby electric vacuum, prop heat etc. except for some different choice in in avionics between Bendix King and Century. But the KFC 200 wasn't used on '86's, should be a KFC or KAP 150 so that make me doubt it had a serial number in the 1xxxx range. Furthermore the 120 gal long range tanks  also doesn't compute. Standard tanks in the '86 where 75.6 Gal, and Piloto's long range tanks added 30 gal with speed brakes (which every '86 has) netting a total of 105.6 gal. None of the numbers make sense.  But to clear your concern, useful load on '86 should be be in the vicinity of 900 lbs; more on an earlier 231 that didn't have all the options - unless maybe if it still has the scout radar which was heavy! (and useless!)

[pkofman]

Well guys

I went back and checked the w/b sheet , it definitely say 608 = useful load.

it has a ton of toys,,, too many probably and monroy long range tanks

Ill check the numbers again with the guy who sent it to me.. ( something does not seems correct ) and in fairness i would not disclose the sn#.. that would not be fair to the broker so ill check  but it is a 86 252 tse and given feedback ive had something is way off base.....!

pete

 

[DonMuncy]

Go back in the previous W & B documents and see what it had from the factory and then check the changes. You might be able to see how/when the problem popped up.

[kortopates]

Brokers are notorious for making mistakes like that.

That said, I see the listing. I would not have believed the KFC200 if I hadn't seen it - and doubly shocking given the SN of 1060. There must be a story behind that. But most of the stuff doesn't add all that much weight except for the TKS system which is 92 lbs with fluid. I would have guessed just under 800 lbs range (i.e. upper 700's) . You could pull the second transponder and altimeter to get some useful load back and some $ assuming you'll convert it to US registry. It does have a number of nice toys on it but is still missing a key basic one, on board weather, and neither transponder is useful much longer. So I'd just pull them both and replace with Garmin 345 to get both 1090ES and ADS-B in Weather products. But there does seem to be a lot of superfluous stuff. I don't really get the aileron trim though nor keeping the DME with the WAAS. Although it looks like a good price.

Edited May 29, 2016 by kortopates

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Pete.

Getting the facts is going to be the key to success. The UL is too important to not get right. Anyone selling a plane should be able to provide proper logs replete with all the WnB data you need.

The guy selling should be able to supply this for you.  The K is one of the most developed of the Mooney airframes.  Anything taking up the UL should stand out in the list of options that the plane has.

Best regards,

-a-

[Piloto]

23 hours ago, pkofman said:

2 quick questions , I'm sure someone here will have an experienced answer.. 1986 m20k ( i used to own one )..the one i say the other day was really well equipped. but the useful load is on 608 lbs... i think that is very low for a m20k... ( the plane has long range tanks 120gl ... so that i dont think you could even take full fuel with 2 people... it also has an older kfc 200..... thoughts??

It is probably equipped with AC and TKS.

[Steve Dietrich]

On 5/28/2016 at 7:21 AM, pkofman said:

2 quick questions , I'm sure someone here will have an experienced answer.. 1986 m20k ( i used to own one )..the one i say the other day was really well equipped. but the useful load is on 608 lbs... i think that is very low for a m20k... ( the plane has long range tanks 120gl ... so that i dont think you could even take full fuel with 2 people... it also has an older kfc 200..... thoughts??

The numbers do not make sense ...   Normal useful is 900-1,000  ...    Yes if you add 120 gallons of fuel you have a two pax airplane . However , my experience is that you seldom find more than one person who flys frequently who is comfortable with more than a 4 -5 hour leg.   

It's entirely different with a relief tube and a SO who is also qualified on the relief tube.

 

I can not claim even a molecule of creativity.  I stole the design from Rutan .  I saw his nifty relief tube exiting the bottom of the fixed landing gear.  The mooney has retractable gear but a fixed step. So the relief tube exits the bottom of the step .  Even on the ramp it has a pretty good flow rate ( stale coffee

 

 

Edited June 4, 2016 by Steve Dietrich

[pkofman]

Well the report back to this post is that no one was able to actually determine the low numbers other than a potential recording error way back so it appears the only way to deal  with this is to re-weigh the plane.... Im continuing my search for a plane but in Canada good- ND Mooney  planes are few and far between.... most left the country when the $$ dropped....

 

[Zwaustin]

My plane has had a gear up as many have and when I bought It she had a very low time engine with a great panel refresh. Been very happy with it. Just make sure the repair is well documented. My useful load is 830 due to tks/ oxygen, ect and we fly regularly with 2-3 people the third usually being our little girl on long trips. For 95 percent of our missions the useful isn't an issue and then there are a couple time when it just doesn't work and we wish we had a Tbm930!!

[turbotrk]

I have a pretty highly equiped 252 and on mine useful load is 680 lbs. Basicly two peaple and full tanks and I am a little bit overweight. The biggest concern on the m20k is anyway the forward cg, on mine I had to install 20 lbs fixed ballast in the tail (mooney kit) as I was landing with trim full nose up. After installation the plane got much better handling and +4kts ias cruise speed gain. What is your actual empy weight and cg?

[aviatoreb]

Jose', is that possible a M20K with 120 gallons?  I thought your Monroy kit brings the factory 75gal tanks on an M20K to +30=105gal.  Is there some "longer long range kit?"

[chrisk]

I recall looking at a 252 some time ago. It had roughly 800 lbs of useful and long range tanks.   With full fuel, it was a single place plane (if I dressed lightly) and I could take no luggage.

[ArtVandelay]

I have a pretty highly equiped 252 and on mine useful load is 680 lbs. Basicly two peaple and full tanks and I am a little bit overweight. The biggest concern on the m20k is anyway the forward cg, on mine I had to install 20 lbs fixed ballast in the tail (mooney kit) as I was landing with trim full nose up. After installation the plane got much better handling and +4kts ias cruise speed gain. What is your actual empy weight and cg?

Instead of having weights, did you think of adding a 2nd battery, at least that would be more useful. Could also add some avionics, GDL88 and Flightstream, and other remote boxes.

[turbotrk]

15 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

Instead of having weights, did you think of adding a 2nd battery, at least that would be more useful. Could also add some avionics, GDL88 and Flightstream, and other remote boxes.

The problem with battery is that it is not far enough from the cg to make significant change while weights get positioned in the tail at station 172. So 20lbs over there are the equivalent of 60lbs in the baggage compartment. The aim is to generate the biggest momentum with the lowest weight increase possible. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by turbotrk

[N252WD]

On my M20K 252

Max: 2900

Empty wt: 2066 w/ all equipment and oil

Useful load: 834# real numbers, 

My plane has 75 gal tanks, w/ Monroy long range tank (30 gal) Total fuel: 105 gal (630# total)

Payload: 204#

[kortopates]

12 hours ago, N252WD said:

On my M20K 252

Max: 2900

Empty wt: 2066 w/ all equipment and oil

Useful load: 834# real numbers, 

My plane has 75 gal tanks, w/ Monroy long range tank (30 gal) Total fuel: 105 gal (630# total)

Payload: 204#

You may not really care, but when useful load is at a premium it pays off not to round off to whole numbers when doing your calculations since you will gain 15 lbs of payload with long range tanks filled.

For example, using the proper fuel weight for 100LL your payload with standard tanks only filled is at 394.0 lbs and payload with long range tanks filled then becomes 219.4 or 15 lbs more than you were giving yourself. I'll personally take every pound i can since I rarely fly solo.

My 252's useful load is 892 lbs with 115 ft3 O2 and all the other options including dual alternators. And about to grow by another 230 lbs max gross increase from the Encore mod. I keep my plane on a diet!!

Edited July 26, 2016 by kortopates

[kortopates]

On 6/20/2016 at 9:01 PM, aviatoreb said:

Jose', is that possible a M20K with 120 gallons?  I thought your Monroy kit brings the factory 75gal tanks on an M20K to +30=105gal.  Is there some "longer long range kit?"

No, 30 gals is the max additional for 252's & Encores because they all have speed brakes installed, but the 231's or pre '86 airframes without speed brakes will get 36 gals additional with the mod.