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Which Mooney?


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On May 21, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Bennett said:

 

 

 

 

I agree completely. I normally run well ROP because in all candor I want the speed, and fuel costs are not my first priority, but my J runs just fine LOP, and I trade speed for range with good reserves when I make longer trips. I can (and do) fly San Carlos, CA to Scottsdale, AZ non-stop with move than a hour of reserves left in the J's standard tanks. Great airplane, as was my prior Mooney 261 conversion from a 231. Entirely different use of aircraft today, and I don't miss the turbo, with its higher maintenance, and little if any speed difference at my normal 7000' - 8000 trip altitudes.

Mm.

Bennett - I agree with you, I fly a Mooney over a Bonanza primarily for the incredible speed and efficiency in performance. However my longest journeys at this point are about 400 NM (Western Texas to the Houston Texas area). The ability to stay in the air for 5-6 hrs @ 120-130 KTAS (sounds like the 172 I got my ppl in ..?) isn't very exciting for me. However I'd be interested to see your opinions on both your J and the 262 converted K. What altitudes do you see 160 ktas and what power settings in the J? I guess more importantly what speeds do you regularly see and plan for both heading to AZ and coming back? I currently rent an Ovation 2, plan for 180 kts. Heading to Houston at 11000' my GS is typically 200-220 kts, coming back at about 8000' I'm averaging ~160-167 kts into the wind, which is still pretty good! But if I were to buy, my budget would only allow for a decent J or Older K model. 

 

Thanks!

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On May 21, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Bennett said:  

 

 

 

I agree completely. I normally run well ROP because in all candor I want the speed, and fuel costs are not my first priority, but my J runs just fine LOP, and I trade speed for range with good reserves when I make longer trips. I can (and do) fly San Carlos, CA to Scottsdale, AZ non-stop with move than a hour of reserves left in the J's standard tanks. Great airplane, as was my prior Mooney 261 conversion from a 231. Entirely different use of aircraft today, and I don't miss the turbo, with its higher maintenance, and little if any speed difference at my normal 7000' - 8000 trip altitudes.

Mm.

Bennett - I agree with you, I fly a Mooney over a Bonanza primarily for the incredible speed and efficiency in performance. However my longest journeys at this point are about 400 NM (Western Texas to the Houston Texas area). The ability to stay in the air for 5-6 hrs @ 120-130 KTAS (sounds like the 172 I got my ppl in ..?) isn't very exciting for me. However I'd be interested to see your opinions on both your J and the 262 converted K. What altitudes do you see 160 ktas and what power settings in the J? I guess more importantly what speeds do you regularly see and plan for both heading to AZ and coming back? I currently rent an Ovation 2, plan for 180 kts. Heading to Houston at 11000' my GS is typically 200-220 kts, coming back at about 8000' I'm averaging ~160-167 kts into the wind, which is still pretty good! But if I were to buy, my budget would only allow for a decent J or Older K model. 

 

Thanks!

The short version: if you want, send me a PM, and I will give you my phone number to discuss in detail. The J is a great airplane for 400 mile trips, and personally for trips of that distance I would fly as fast as I can ROP-WOT, Ram Air open, leaned to a fuel flow of about 12.5 Gallons/Hour, (outside air temps as a factor), with adjustments to keep CHTS below 375 degrees., cowl flaps closed, 2550 RPM. The "sweet spot" for J's, or at least my J is between 7,000' and 10,000'. Easy to run at a TAS of 160 knots + for this particular J (LoPresti cowl, PowerFlow exhaust, Top Prop, and a host of other speed mods p>

Now my 262 was an entirely aircraft as I set her up for really long distance trips - San Carlos/ Florida/Caribbean and return. I had the Monroe LR tanks, and 7 hour legs were no problem. Except for the hamburger runs, I hardly ever flew her under FL190, and generally between FL190 and FL230. (the Critical Altitude was 24,000'.) Altitudes were chosen for the highest possible ground speeds, and I spent a huge amount of time in planing these trips based on predicted winds aloft, and then adjusting for the real winds and enroute weather. I ran that airplane hard, but with good cowl flap management, and fuel flow adjustments, TIT, and CHT temperatures were kept reasonable.

Why a J now rather than a 252/262 conversion? My needs are different today, and the J does everything I want, and does so without the hassle of oxygen at my usual altitudes I fly nowadays. Actually, there is very little speed advantage for a 262 over a 201 at 7,500' - especially if both aircraft are full fueled. My 262 had the "high altitude" prop which wasn't very efficient below 18,000' so other 262s may well show different results.

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Factory reman'd engine is pretty low time.  Zero time on it when it comes from the factory.  Cons: break in is on you.  Infant mortality is a possibility for you.  Like new with a discounted price.

a fully timed out engine has 2,000 hours on it and is often to run some overtime by some people.  When buying a fully run-out engine, the plane's price has been discounted.  The new owner is expecting to get no hours from it.  When he gets more hours out of it, he is happy.  He flys it nervously as if something bad is going to happen at any time.

Engine time is how people describe what has been used and what still remains.  This is important when buying and selling a plane.

There are still many variables like how long ago was the overhaul, and who did it...

in the automotive world people equate this to how many miles are on the odometer, and how far it is expected to go...

planes are often operated beyond TBO by the pilot who owns it since day one.  He knows how it was cared for, he knows how to operate it.  Buying it with 2000 hours on it already and learning about ROP/LOP, is not the same...

if you experiment with an engine that has 2000 hours and you burn it up, you haven't lost anything?

If you have already run a similar engine past TBO, you know what it is like and you are likely educated enough to do it again.

If you are new to ownership or flying, why would you want to take on this additional challenge?

flying past TBO is for engineers who like to drive their ordinary cars past 200kmi.  Call me a fan.

Just for asking the question...  You probably prefer new cars with a discount off the sticker price... Have you ever installed a new engine in anything?  (Lawn mower, car, boat, etc... :)

the more technically inclined you are, the more value is available to you.  If you have no technical inclination, you are more stuck with paying more for the engine with less time.

If you are not technically inclined and go with the high time engine, people will call you a financial risk taker. They probably won't mean it in a complimentary way.  

Buying a plane is fun.  (For some people)

---------- 

Just one of the important details...

Best regards,

-a-

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On May 21, 2016 at 11:52 AM, mooniac15u said:

I've done 700+ nm in my J several times without a fuel stop. Usually my passengers want a break. 

image.png

I've done 780 NM in a 54 gallon airplane with 14 gallons left over.  And no tailwind.  And the highest I got was 2400'

Edited by jetdriven
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