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Which Mooney?


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An M20J is a very capable machine.

It can cross tall mountains.

There are better Mooneys for significant amounts of high flight, such as the M20K.  

If you intend to do this type of flight every week, add O2 and a FIKI system.

Best regards,

-a-

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I have flown Salt Lake City to NW of Seattle non-stop a couple of times in Js.  About 700 km. Also cross western mountains at up to 15000, although that last 2,000 feet seems like it takes forever to climb.

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On 5/21/2016 at 11:04 AM, RJSmith said:

Thanks for the responses.  My desire is to have the ability to flight plan for at least 160 knots and be able to complete the 700NM trip with 500 lbs of passengers and gear without a stop (Northern VA to Orlando FL).  Based upon what I've read, it'll be difficult finding one with a 1000 lb UL, so I'm trying to run the numbers by gauging fuel requirements for that particular trip.  I will definitely take the opportunity to sit and fly in type as I'm 6'4" 230lbs and want to ensure that I can comfortably fit.

RJ,

Welcome aboard... I'm 6'5 and 250 and my J fits me very well....I think you will find out the same if you find one to sit in. Good luck with your search... 

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Bonanza is a better option in terms of comfort and equal or faster on speed depending on model.  It will cost more to buy, more in gas, and more to maintain. 

Mooneys are a nice mix of all variables at basically the lowest operating cost.  

Which one you choose really should be driven by what your annual operating budget will be.  

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13 hours ago, bradp said:

My first trip in a Mooney was from Fresno to Boston via the southern route.  It's a very capable and no nonsense plane.  

Brad, That was a haul.  How many legs?  How did you feel at the conclusion of the flight?  

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On 5/21/2016 at 1:04 PM, RJSmith said:

Thanks for the responses.  My desire is to have the ability to flight plan for at least 160 knots and be able to complete the 700NM trip with 500 lbs of passengers and gear without a stop (Northern VA to Orlando FL).  Based upon what I've read, it'll be difficult finding one with a 1000 lb UL, so I'm trying to run the numbers by gauging fuel requirements for that particular trip.  I will definitely take the opportunity to sit and fly in type as I'm 6'4" 230lbs and want to ensure that I can comfortably fit.

I fly about equal time in a turbo normalized BE 36 and my Mooney Rocket.  On longer flights the Mooney is MUCH MORE comfortable than the Bonanza.  The seats on the Bo only go back a small amount before hitting the stops (and the second row seats).  The Bo also has you sitting higher in more of a chair type posture, with no ability to stretch the legs out.  In my Mooney, I can push the seat back to the back seat in cruise and, with no passengers, I can stretch them over to the passenger foot well and REALLY stretch and relax.  The Bo WILL run LOP at 15-15.5 gallons an hour about 5 knots slower than the Rocket at 19 gallons an hour, but.....parts and maintenance are clearly higher on the Bo than my Mooney.

Tom

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1 hour ago, RJSmith said:

Brad, That was a haul.  How many legs?  How did you feel at the conclusion of the flight?  

Did the trip in three days via the southern route.  Fresno to Lordsville NM for gas.  NM desert is a good place to learn about wind.  Then to Austin to visit family.  My wife and her sister and my dog joined me at that point as I had enough insurance solo hrs to bring passengers.  Then on to Memphis for gas.  Diverted to Ashville NC for thunderstorms and spent the night in a hotel.  Then on to Lynchburg VA to drop off my wife and her sister.  Then on to New Jersey to visit one of my best flying buddies.   Then to Boston to bring her home. 

I transtioned from an arrow so the landing profile was something to get used to, but the planes aren't that much different.  Flew with conservative decision making (i.e. I'm tired lets divert and land after 6 hrs of flying) in mind.   I decided to fly strictly VFR in VMC for that trip.   No testing of the performance profile. Most of it was getting to know the ins and outs of a new to me plane. 

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On 5/23/2016 at 8:04 PM, jonhop said:

RJ,

Welcome aboard... I'm 6'5 and 250 and my J fits me very well....I think you will find out the same if you find one to sit in. Good luck with your search... 

Jon, How often do you take trips >4 hrs?  Are these solo flights?

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RJ, I've done a few 3.5+ hour flights and one 4+ hour flight. I'm building simulated IR time with a safety pilot in each case. I brought my fiance' on the 4+ hour round trip flight from KSEE-KIFP-KHII. We took off at max gross weight for this flight. I'll not mention the weights of my Safety Pilot and fiance' out of self preservation but we were legal for the flight. N57557 can carry 530lbs with full fuel--64gal--so that fits your mission. On those trips, I had the power set to 17"MP and 2200RPM burning 7.6GPH at 9500MSL out and 8500MSL back. I am flying slow to build IR time and saw 120 to 130KTS ground speed and 110KTS IAS. I felt that I could've flown 1000+NM on that fuel burn. The POH lists 1010NM at a 45% power setting, which I was below. See the attached screenshot. 45%P.JPGOn a short flight with my fiance', I did a speed run at 24"MP and 2500RPM and saw 12.5GPH at 3500MSL. We reached 153KTS IAS before some turbulence made it uncomfortable and I pulled the power back. She's definitely fast, I just don't know how fast yet... My next flight is tomorrow from San Diego to Sacramento with my safety pilot and bags for one night.. I'm planning to fly this trip as fast as she will go to get a feel for her performance... I'll post the results when I get back.

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Mr RJ

What you have basically asked is a subjective question. Both options will fit your mission and your answer may lay with you passengers I am sorry to say. Who is flying with you? Significant Other? If so, if you test ride both of your options with the significant other, the perceived space may make the decision for you. Our Mooney's fit like a sports car with lots of room for the long legged types sitting low (Think Corvette) Like a Corvette, you sit tighter that the competition. This is why the Mooney brand is efficient in the air and burns much less gas that it's competition. It is a sleek and efficient design. As with everything in aviation, it is in the compromise. The competition sits much more upright, has more horse power, flies comparatively the same speed at the cost of more fuel and more maintenance.

So I say do not go over to the Dark Side! Do not let the significant other look at the other brand. Do not let the pressure get to you. Stay strong. :):):)

David

 

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Jon/David,

Thanks for the insight and advice.  The UL is more than enough as I was ensuring I had a large enough envelope to accommodate 3 people with full fuel over the entire trip (from time to time).  As stated earlier, I'll begin looking for opportunities for a fitting.

 

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RJ,

Per this discussion the Mooney has a wider cabin: 

Cabin Width
Mooney 201- 43.5"
Beechcraft V35 Bonanza - 42.0"

Just got home from Sacramento. Saw 150KTS CAS/138KTS ground speed on the way up. A significant headwind... Traveled 430NM on 10GPH at 10.5MSL average with 3.3 hours of flight time from wheels off to touchdown per Garmin Pilot. We had to climb to 12.5 followed by a rapid descent to 8.5 in the central valley to stay VFR. On the way back it was clear all the way and we saw 145 to 150KTS CAS at 9500MSL and 160 to 170KTS ground speed at 22"MP and 2500RPM burning 11.* GPH. A significant tail wind... Our descent had crazy speeds at 500fpm down... 170KTS CAS and 190KTS ground speed. See the below pictures for cruise at 9.5MSL...

20160526_183403.jpg

20160526_183406.jpg

Edited by jonhop
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On 5/21/2016 at 11:04 AM, RJSmith said:

Thanks for the responses.  My desire is to have the ability to flight plan for at least 160 knots and be able to complete the 700NM trip with 500 lbs of passengers and gear without a stop (Northern VA to Orlando FL).  Based upon what I've read, it'll be difficult finding one with a 1000 lb UL, so I'm trying to run the numbers by gauging fuel requirements for that particular trip.  I will definitely take the opportunity to sit and fly in type as I'm 6'4" 230lbs and want to ensure that I can comfortably fit.

It depends a lot on the pax .   If you take pilot plus 2 pax  the probability of completing 700NM trip without bathroom stop is pretty low.  If they are comfortable with relief tube then the range works.  A 231 or 252 works well on the 700 NM trip .

The big difference between turbo and non turbo is probably the maintenance costs.  On the east coast that may not be an issue.  While the masses believe southern california is 30 million living in a flat disneyland ,  the mountains east and north of LA really favor a turbo for winter operations where the climb capability from 6000 is critical .

We are here because  we like Mooneys .   I have flown about 25 different airplanes and for your mission a Mooney would be a great choice.

 

 

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Beechcraft V35 Bonanza - 42.0"

Just got home from Sacramento. Saw 150KTS CAS/138KTS ground speed on the way up. A significant headwind... Traveled 430NM on 10GPH at 10.5MSL average with 3.3 hours of flight time from wheels off to touchdown per Garmin Pilot. We had to climb to 12.5 followed by a rapid descent to 8.5 in the central valley to stay VFR. On the way back it was clear all the way and we saw 145 to 150KTS CAS at 9500MSL and 160 to 170KTS ground speed at 22"MP and 2500RPM burning 11.* GPH. A significant tail wind... Our descent had crazy speeds at 500fpm down... 170KTS CAS and 190KTS ground speed. See the below pictures for cruise at 9.5MSL...

Or you can run LOP, and burn 8.5 GPH

61b4322a552999fafea8960e3b30aeaa.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Pretty funny. I just uploaded my JPI data and guess who reviewed it? One of very own IAs. Small world.

I still have not subscribed to Savvy paid service. I might just to see if they can help isolate a possible prop governor issue. I replaced prop cable but RPM still drifts.  

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RJ, welcome to the board. Thank you for your service.

I was in your position, 3 years ago (albeit without that valuable AF experience!) and searchng for either a Bo or a Mooney. I looked for 9 months, primarily focused on Beechcraft because of family tradition more than anything else. My Dad flew a Baron, then a Duke and I spent much time in Beech products growing up.

But the bottom line was that I just could not find a decent Bo that met my needs, for my budget.

My mission is comparable to yours - I needed to carry 2 people, full fuel, and luggage, with 4 people occasionally.  My longest trip so far is non-stop Springfield MO to York PA, 815nm, with 2 adults on board.  That was roughly 4:45 as I recall.

I regularly fly Springfield to Clovis NM to visit my son who is an AC130 pilot at Canon AFB.  We have made that trip, 500 nm, with four adults and IFR reserves.   Westbound.

I have a 252, Encore conversion so my useful is a little high for a Mooney at 1030#.  But as folks have mentioned, many Js have the payload to handle your missoon easily.

As for room, I'm 6'2"+, and sit tall.  225 lbs currently, and it would be lower if I could cut back on beer.  But who wants to do that?  I have no issues with room.  My son is 6'4", and skinny, and has occupied the rear seat.  Having reclining seats in back helped, and with that, he claimed he was comfortable.  My other son, 6' and probably 230#, has occuped the rear seat from OSH to SGF, no problem.

Good luck with your search.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 5/23/2016 at 8:16 PM, Yooper Rocketman said:

I fly about equal time in a turbo normalized BE 36 and my Mooney Rocket.  On longer flights the Mooney is MUCH MORE comfortable than the Bonanza.  The seats on the Bo only go back a small amount before hitting the stops (and the second row seats).  The Bo also has you sitting higher in more of a chair type posture, with no ability to stretch the legs out.  In my Mooney, I can push the seat back to the back seat in cruise and, with no passengers, I can stretch them over to the passenger foot well and REALLY stretch and relax.  The Bo WILL run LOP at 15-15.5 gallons an hour about 5 knots slower than the Rocket at 19 gallons an hour, but.....parts and maintenance are clearly higher on the Bo than my Mooney.

Tom

I've often said the same regarding the comfort.  I can't ride in my wife's Cadillac as long without getting all squirmy and uncomfortable.  My previous two birds were Cessna's and I sat upright as described.  Definitely something about the way my Mooney's tiny seat spreads my weight out.

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On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 0:45 PM, slowflyin said:

I've often said the same regarding the comfort.  I can't ride in my wife's Cadillac as long without getting all squirmy and uncomfortable.  My previous two birds were Cessna's and I sat upright as described.  Definitely something about the way my Mooney's tiny seat spreads my weight out.

slowflyin, I'll let you know about my fit, but it'll ultimately come down to my wife's comfort vote.

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