triple8s Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 A fellow I know came in to land today in his VTail, gear wasn't down and he didnt realize it till it was too late. Unfortunately he tried to save a mistake and poured the coals to the old TCM it tried but with little prop left it just couldn't climb out of ground effect. I want everyone to think about this if you come in to land and forget the gear please just let it settle on down. The Mooneys and even the Bonanzas are very well built and you will probably come out with only a damaged ego. Do NOT try to go around, maybe you will get lucky and make it back around but chances are not in your favor let the insurance company have it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Makes you wonder about the gear warning system? Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triple8s Posted May 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 I dont know Bo's but it was a 66 V tail, not sure about the what kind of warning system it had but trying to go around cost him his plane and his life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 888s, I enjoyed the thought in your first post. The clarity of your second post is chilling. prayers for the errant pilot, -a- 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 People think I am crazy but when I come into land I do a "Mooney on final, gear down & locked" call. It's my last chance to remind myself to do one final check. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 1 minute ago, Marauder said: People think I am crazy but when I come into land I do a "Mooney on final, gear down & locked" call. It's my last chance to remind myself to do one final check. That's not really why people think you are crazy . . lol just kidding 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Just now, LANCECASPER said: That's not really why people think you are crazy . . lol just kidding Sounds like a guy who wants me to send him a daily "girl of the day" picture to his email. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 I honestly can't understand how someone could do this. The airplane flies so entirely different dirty than clean, how do you not notice? Doesn't hurt to have the J-bar int he middle of the panel either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 On 5/20/2016 at 0:09 PM, steingar said: I honestly can't understand how someone could do this. The airplane flies so entirely different dirty than clean, how do you not notice? Doesn't hurt to have the J-bar int he middle of the panel either. I was reminded in 1992 when I bought a Cessna Cutlass (172RG), my first retractable gear airplane, to stay humble because there are only 2 kinds of retractable gear pilots - ones who have landed gear up and ones who will. (I thought about that and then deep down I thought it could never happen to me. How could anyone be so distracted to forget to put the gear down?) Fast Forward to 1997. I had just bought a 1996 Mooney TLS Bravo and a friend needed me to drive him up to catch a commercial flight in Austin TX. No problem, I'll fly you to Austin Mueller (now closed). He had flown with me many times and knew that hot starts in Texas summers can be tricky. We went over it before we ever left the ground. He was going to exit the airplane, get his bag, shut the baggage door and walk behind the airplane to the FBO for his ride to the terminal while I kept it at idle and didn't have to shut down. We landed, taxied, he exited. I got my clearance, taxied, took off and shortly after take-off I heard a loud bang from the back of the airplane - the baggage door has popped open on my new airplane. I was sure it had probably exited the airframe and had taken the tail section with it. I let the tower know what happened and that I was coming around to land on the perpendicular runway - all the way picturing what my airplane must look like. I turned final and wanted to get this thing on the ground to assess the damage. On final a Delta pilot waiting for take-off, who had heard everything, says "Mooney, check your gear down". I got that horrible feeling. I would like to think that I would have made a short-final gumps check, but I'm not sure. After all was said and done after landing and then taxiing to the FBO and looking over the airplane, I closed the baggage door, locked it and there wasn't a scratch or a bend anywhere on the airplane. I had turned a minor distraction into what could have been a major problem. After that I realized it can happen to anyone - all it takes is something out of the ordinary thrown in the mix. Don't ever say it couldn't happen to you. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Sorry for the loss. Frustrating GA losses lately. Well on a V-tail most goofballs need to carry about 20" to park the thing it seems. I'm sure the gear warning system only works when it's close to idle. The V-tail has so much drag I can see a gear up as a real deal. The mooney is still incredibly a real deal, but I'm always trying to slow to gear speed, it's hard to decent with out it down. Rip, -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Steingar, let me be a friend... (Cover for 'I may be a little rough in describing these’) There will be a day when you are busy and you put your keys in a place they don't belong. 'Honey, have you seen my...' Or you get to work and you realize your coffee is on the kitchen counter... Or the transmission is in reverse already and you flop it into N... Or you really can't remember what you had for breakfast... becoming so well practiced at what you do leads to a touch of complacency. Follow it up with a go-around and you have a very recent memory of putting the gear down and seeing a green light. Now things aren't normal unless you do go-arounds often... These are ordinary distractions that make you look like you have aged a few decades early. The kind of distractions that ordinary people have. The kind that lead to GU landings. Fortunately Doing GUMPS removes the issues typical of ordinary brains. Go out and see how ordinary your brain is or isn't. But know that age or smoking or other things can change things over time. Fortunately checklists don't change as rapidly. Just my thoughts... Best regards, -a- 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 I was flying the bosses B36TC the other day. When I was about 3 miles from base I reduced power to 20 in to slow down. That thing almost fell out of the sky! I was amazed at how much power it took to fly final. I'll stick to the Mooney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooniac15u Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 1 minute ago, Hyett6420 said: Downwind or 5 miles= BUMPFC. Then Short final check:- RED, BLUE,GREEN. I'll let you work out what it means. Good for base as well then short final as well.. Well, in England "FC" means Football Club so I'm guessing that Bump is the newest team in the Premiere League. I thought the cards were yellow, red, and black so I have no idea what the blue and green are about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Don't mean to be cocky, and the reason it took me so long to get the Mooney is I was always afraid of the gear up. But the J-bar is a big thing, hard to believe I wouldn't notice. Btu you are right, it can happen to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 It's the way the brain works. Or doesn't work. you see the J bar, and it's not where it's supposed to be... But, it doesn't completely register... Next thing through your busy mind is... Man, I should have seen the green light to go with that. The J bar does have a few advantages. Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooniac15u Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 16 minutes ago, steingar said: Don't mean to be cocky, and the reason it took me so long to get the Mooney is I was always afraid of the gear up. But the J-bar is a big thing, hard to believe I wouldn't notice. Btu you are right, it can happen to anyone. I landed with the gear up once because I had to. I can tell you that once you get low and slow it doesn't feel much different without the gear. And that loud gear horn just becomes background noise pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takair Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 I think it can even happen with the j-bar. While it is huge and obvious, I don't think it would pass the modern human factors test. The bar is UP when the gear is DOWN. After almost 20 years I still prefer the light as the more intuitive way to verify gear position. Maybe it's just my brain, but I have had to think about the j-bar position and what it means, more than once. Add a little rust or stress and I can see how someone can get there. One other way is after a go around when the plane is already slow. You don't need to work to slow down, so your rhythm is thrown off. i think this accident discussion may be less about the gear up than what to do about a prop strike. This is not limited to retractables. Years ago I remember a fixed gear Glasair having a prop strike at the airport where I worked. They went around, barely cleared a fence and ended up in a pond. They were lucky. Another guy soloing a Tiger did a similar thing on his first landing, but didn't realize and managed two more flights, He was truly lucky, the prop was bent significantly. Ultimately, the takeaway is that if you have a prop strike, keep the plane down and absorb the additional damage. That said, I can imagine that my instinct might be to try to save the gear up by going around. This is not something we can practice, so it can easily happen. Really unfortunate this poor guy died as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Best way to avoid a belly landing is to have a gear voice alarm instead of the stall/gear buzzers. I almost belly landed my M20C on a go around for a plane ahead. On final I heard the gear buzzer but though it was the stall alarm. I pushed the throttle and the buzzer stopped. Noticed that the speed was too high for a stall and the red gear light was on so just above runway threshold I extended the gear. The problem is that either warning can happen on the approach phase and lead to the wrong action. This is why the warnings should be distinctive. José 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooniac15u Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Hyett6420 said: Ok, Brakes,Undercarriage, mixture, propeller fully fine, fuel pump, cowl flaps. Red=mixture rich, blue=propellor fully fine, Green= gear down. I don't follow football in the UK but FC means a different thing in my language, sort of rude. Lol. . My guess was so close. Which language is yours? You are based in the UK now, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 8 hours ago, steingar said: I honestly can't understand how someone could do this. The airplane flies so entirely different dirty than clean, how do you not notice? Doesn't hurt to have the J-bar int he middle of the panel either. I'm not sure a J bar would work on Beechcraft. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 8 hours ago, steingar said: I honestly can't understand how someone could do this. The airplane flies so entirely different dirty than clean, how do you not notice? Doesn't hurt to have the J-bar int he middle of the panel either. When I was actively instructing, I did a good number of complex transition sign offs. After a few take offs and landings, when the transitioning student was just starting to feel confident that they were really mastering a retractable gear airplane, I would ask on downwind, "So, what are you and your wife planning to do for Christmas this year?" It NEVER FAILED to get them to forget the gear. NEVER. On final, with the gear warning horn blaring, I would ask, "what's that noise?" The answer would invariably be, "uhh, stall warning?" My point to them was twofold: First- our spouses, without meaning to, sense our increased alertness in the traffic pattern, and unconsciously will pick that time to ask a question. Any question. About anything. Second- to prevent distraction, you must lay down the ground rules early, before takeoff, to avoid hurt feelings later on. Sterile cockpit rules apply within 5 miles of an airport or when talking to approach control or tower. No conversation is allowed that doesn't apply to the flight itself. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob - S50 Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Had some work done at the MSC at TTD some time ago. He told me about two partners that owned a Mooney. One of them landed gear up. Took a couple months to get the plane fixed. The other partner took it out on its maiden flight... and landed gear up. Stuff happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Just now, Bob - S50 said: Had some work done at the MSC at TTD some time ago. He told me about two partners that owned a Mooney. One of them landed gear up. Took a couple months to get the plane fixed. The other partner took it out on its maiden flight... and landed gear up. Stuff happens. You do have to say that they were well matched partners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryoder Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Have any of you forgotten to close the gas door on your car? How about turning off the boost pump? I think we are all a gear up waiting to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 Have any of you forgotten to close the gas door on your car? How about turning off the boost pump? I think we are all a gear up waiting to happen. None of those other examples have a warning horn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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