Airplane sitting for 3 1/2 months

[DXB]

My 3 week panel job last summer turned into 2.5 months.  I did change oil shortly prior with 100W + Camguard but did not address humidity.  Plane was hangared the whole time.  I Changed oil again shortly after getting it back. The huge spike in wear metals on oil analysis on a sample with <10 hrs on the oil was unsettling and persisted over a couple of subsequent 25 hr oil changes .  Filter and screen stayed clean though and it ran fine, and now the metals are settling down.  If I leave it sit that long again, I will invest in dehumidification.  And maybe not send oil analysis for a couple oil changes to avoid the pointless stress.    

[kpaul]

I appreciate all the advice.  I'm going to fly one more time Saturday and then get the oil changed on Tuesday.  I'm still looking into dehumidifiers. 

[Andy95W]

23 hours ago, jclemens said:

14 weeks in a hangar is not a long time.  I would just park it.  Unhooking the battery wouldn't hurt, in case there is something on the hot buss.

 

12 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

Yes....!

3.5 months isn't that big a deal for a heathy battery.  Might put an overnight trickle charge on it before you fly when you get back.

 

5 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

3 months isnt a long time. Mine has been sitting for 6 months just waiting on an annual. Camguard and fresh oil wouldn't hurt, and just wait for the Gill to die and get a Concorde.

+1

Do the best you can, plan on buying a new Concorde, and try not to worry, IMHO.

[Seth]

You can always DIY a dehumidifier.  Examples are online somewhere.  I read about them a while ago and should have made one.  I'll have to look at that again.

-Seth

[DonMuncy]

4 minutes ago, Seth said:

You can always DIY a dehumidifier.  Examples are online somewhere.  I read about them a while ago and should have made one.  I'll have to look at that again.

-Seth

I built my own. Glad to share what I have and did.

[Bartman]

6 hours ago, DXB said:

My 3 week panel job last summer turned into 2.5 months.  I did change oil shortly prior with 100W + Camguard but did not address humidity.  Plane was hangared the whole time.  I Changed oil again shortly after getting it back. The huge spike in wear metals on oil analysis on a sample with <10 hrs on the oil was unsettling and persisted over a couple of subsequent 25 hr oil changes .  Filter and screen stayed clean though and it ran fine, and now the metals are settling down.  If I leave it sit that long again, I will invest in dehumidification.  And maybe not send oil analysis for a couple oil changes to avoid the pointless stress.    

This is why I don't bother with oil analysis.  If it didn't show in the screen, didn't show in the filter, and you didn't do anything about it when it did show abnormalities. and consider not doing it in the future when the plane sits, then why do it ?

DXB don't get me wrong I'm not picking on you and not trying to derail the thread, but I am very skeptical about the benefit of oil analysis and do not think sitting in a hangar for a couple of months is going to hurt the engine. Mine does it every winter from December thru February and I suspect a lot of other planes do the same.  The way I figure it, the only ones who really benefit is Blackstone. I just fly as much as possible, change oil every 25 hours and check the filter and don't worry if I don't see any metal.

Oil analysis is a religion.... 

Sorry not trying to offend anyone in either camp, just expressing an opinion.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Bartman

[amillet]

I bought one of the engine dryers from Aircraft Spruce when I had shoulder surgery 3 years ago and would be unable to fly for 6 weeks.  I used it for that down time and whenever the plane was going to sit for more than a week.  Stuck the Dry air tube up the breather tube as per instructions.  I just realized a couple of weeks ago that there is a vent hole in the breather tube on the firewall up near the oil cooler that you can't see with the cowl on.  All the dry air was most likely going out that hole and not into the engine.  Maybe that contributed to engine needing to be replaced at 1818 TTSNEW last fall.  (Lots of fine metal flakes in the filter)  The instructions do say to push past any vent holes in the breather tube but says they are likely to be near the end of the tube.  The  dry air tube is not long enough to go past the hole up on the firewall. Any suggestions on how to properly use the engine dryer?

[amillet]

[amillet]

This is what I have

[DXB]

13 minutes ago, Bartman said:

This is why I don't bother with oil analysis.  If it didn't show in the screen, didn't show in the filter, and you didn't do anything about it when it did show abnormalities. and consider not doing it in the future when the plane sits, then why do it ?

DXB don't get me wrong I'm not picking on you and not trying to derail the thread, but I am very skeptical about the benefit of oil analysis and do not think sitting in a hangar for a couple of months is going to hurt the engine. Mine does it every winter from December thru February and I suspect a lot of other planes do the same.  The way I figure it, the only ones who really benefit is Blackstone. I just fly as much as possible, change oil every 25 hours and check the filter and don't worry if I don't see any metal.

Oil analysis is a religion.... 

Sorry not trying to offend anyone in either camp, just expressing an opinion.

Not offended at all Bartman- if you run across the pages of oil analysis skepticism I've posted on other threads you'll understand why .  I basically keep doing it for experience since there's far more experienced people  (like Mike Busch) who believe in it - feels like hubris to blow them off after owning for less than 2 years-   maybe I'll see something that makes me change my mind.  More likely I'll quit in a couple years and have a little extra gas money... But no further diversion ..

[DXB]

Seems like you need separate approaches to continuously circulate dry air through both the cylinders and the crankcase to be fully effective- I'm unaware of a single device to accomplish both.  And desiccants in typical dryers need to be refreshed frequently - not convenient if you are away for a long time

[carusoam]

Without measuring the air coming out of the system, it is difficult to gauge what is happening inside...

There is plenty of moisture in the block after running it. I open the oil filler to let the moisture vent out.  If I don't there will be droplets under the cap when I come back a week later.  Proof that water will be in there...

the dry air needs to be forced in or somehow drawn through.  Otherwise, like a post above indicates, the dry air can be vented out without realizing it didn't go where you expect it to.

Then there is the one cylinder that is probably open to the exhaust system.  The exhaust valve is open and would benefit from blocking the exhaust with a dryer material plug.

It takes effort to do it right.  So get a complete solution.

Then go Concorde!

-a-

[jetdriven]

You can cover the whistle slot with a flap of silicone baffle material clamped to the breather tube. This allows it to push open if case of s frozen breather tube in flight, which is what it's designed for. 

For best results also plug the sniffle valve hose and cover the tailpipe (nitrile blue glove) and the intake air filter.   This allows the desiccant to dry out the engine without pulling in additional moisture.  After a few hours the dry air pulls in the moisture contained in the cylinders. A humidity switch is important, because if the fan runs continuously in a humid  climate it saturates the desiccant In just a few days. 

I wanted the black max since it's an electronic dehumidifier and it simply pumps in dry air, no return needed. But it's 500$ and that was a bit much for me.    The desiccant in the others (I have a Tanis) needs to be recharged once a month or less.  It holds 3/4 gallon of desiccant beads.  Some hold much less and would need to be recharged more often.  But if leaving your Plane unattended for 3 months either the black max or have someone come out and recharge the desiccant for you.  

Edited May 20, 2016 by jetdriven

[kpaul]

It could be that my Google skills are weak, but it seems that may of these systems are no longer made.  I can only find the Black Max for $595 and their web site is not set up as a store so I have a email into them to see about purchasing their system. http://www.flyingsafer.com/p-n-2065.html

[jclemens]

It stands to reason that if an engine needs to be dehydrated for storage that it must require proper rehydration before being put back in service. Seeing that there doesn't seem to be a product on the market for this, I will start designing one immediately. I don't want anyone flying around in a dehydrated engine. If you guys requiring this device could just send me $200, that way I know how many to build.....

[kpaul]

1 minute ago, jclemens said:

It stands to reason that if an engine needs to be dehydrated for storage that it must require proper rehydration before being put back in service. Seeing that there doesn't seem to be a product on the market for this, I will start designing one immediately. I don't want anyone flying around in a dehydrated engine. If you guys requiring this device could just send me $200, that way I know how many to build.....

I have one of those...its called NW Florida, where it is currently 92% Humidity.

[steingar]

Being a VFR only pilot I've routinely had huge layoffs during bad winters.  I've kept the battery on a motorcycle tender and not much else.  Never had a problem in 10 years.

[jetdriven]

I've seen water dripping off dfw side of the crankcase in the morning and the dipstick had water on it when I checked the oil. When the temp lowers to the dew point the water does condense out, it's just physics. Some go a long time sitting but others on this board are on their 3rd engine in 5 years.  

This gentleman a website explains  it prett thoroughly. After his Cardinal RH are the cam after moving to Houston he designed the system. http://www.enginedryingsystem.com/?page_id=168

[DXB]

34 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

I've seen water dripping off dfw side of the crankcase in the morning and the dipstick had water on it when I checked the oil. When the temp lowers to the dew point the water does condense out, it's just physics. Some go a long time sitting but others on this board are on their 3rd engine in 5 years.  

This gentleman a website explains  it prett thoroughly. After his Cardinal RH are the cam after moving to Houston he designed the system. http://www.enginedryingsystem.com/?page_id=168

Didn't know about this device- seems thoughtfully designed. I like how data-driven the guy's presentation is.   The only hole that isn't plugged is the intake- probably could be addressed somehow?  If you can make it into a really tight system, the dessicant could last a really long time. If it's very leaky, it will burn out the dessicant (and perhaps the air pump) really fast. 

[mooniac15u]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

Some go a long time sitting but others on this board are on their 3rd engine in 5 years.  

I assume you are referring to a specific case. Was this your own engine problems? I seem to recall you had an issue with a new engine but I don't remember the details  

Do you feel that humidity and/or inactivity played a major role over such a short timeframe?

[Dan M20E '66]

Back to the battery charger - I also have a G-35 and found Hector in tech support at Gill extremely helpful. For the G-35, you need a Charge ("Bulk") range of 14.1V to 14.3V, and Maintenance ("Float") range of 13.1V to 13.5V.

My concern is mainly maintenance, so I use an older Battery Tender model 022-0157-1 that floats at 13.5V. As long as it's powered up when connecting to the Gill, it stays in float mode.

[DonMuncy]

5 hours ago, DXB said:

Didn't know about this device- seems thoughtfully designed. I like how data-driven the guy's presentation is.   The only hole that isn't plugged is the intake- probably could be addressed somehow?  If you can make it into a really tight system, the dessicant could last a really long time. If it's very leaky, it will burn out the dessicant (and perhaps the air pump) really fast. 

I don't claim to be an expert, and do not have any test data to back up my dryer use, but I run my dehumidifier for 5 or 10  minutes after every flight, and it is then on an automatic "5 minutes per day" cycle. I have about 1/2 gallon of dessicant and have to regenerate it every 3 or 4 months. I'm in Dallas and I'm sure it makes a difference.

[kpaul]

So, I guess my plane is not happy about the prospect of sitting.  I noticed my stock EGT gauge acting up on my last flight, today it was mostly at zero.  I have a JPI EDM 700, so I know all the EGTs were actually good.  Additionally, I lost my vacuum pump on my way home.  I actually noticed the gauge reading zero before I did the red low vac light.  The gyro had not started to tumble and was able to engage the backup vacuum.  It took a bit for the  gauge to register good pressure but it eventually did.  My list of issues is growing.

I looked at the vacuum pump after flight and there was not any thing immediately obvious.  I did not have time today to really did into it.

[211º]

Replacing my battery soon with another Concord.  Replaced the Gil in my 150 with a Concord - I never knew the propeller would spin so quickly on starting.  

Makes me happy to see the writing on the battery on the M20E that I'll be moving out.

[211º]

9.5 years and I just might keep the old one on the shelf for a while.